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California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

nytimes.com

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Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#21

Post by DoingIsLearning »

basisword wrote: post #6

I hope this is the beginning of a shift back towards the centre on both the right and the left.

Just for an additional perspective, for most of the world's democracies both the US republicans and democrats are very much on the right-wing side of the political spectrum.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with American Democrats but if you look at actual policies they would be labeled centre right anywhere else in the world.

As an American friend once put it to me "Americans believe luck is made, so social handouts are basically perceived as tax payer theft".

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#22

Post by mostertoaster »

dathinab wrote: post #18
basisword wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gives me hope that the left is. If the left shifts more central and becomes more palatable to centre right people than the far right, then the right also needs to shift.

but the left didn't shift left in a relevant degree, they are more right then most center parties in the EU. Its right which shifted so far right that it might seem the left shifted away. A lot of things coming from the republican party, of bring tolerated by the republican party on recent years are uncanily similar to how Hitler proceeded before he started mass murdering (like in the rethoric of speach and willingne…

You should probably read some different news sources.

The right hasn’t changed much other than they care less about religion/morality than before.

I’d say leftists tend to be more authoritarian and less liberal in general than the right. Though the right is also full of the authoritarians who just want it for their side.

What the political leaders love is when all the problems are because of the other side. Two wings one bird though.

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#23

Post by upsidesinclude »

dathinab wrote: post #11

war on crime causes crime, draconic penalties do not prevent or even majorly reduce crime if a there is a long list of crime causing things which are not fixed. Like in no specific order: poverty, bleak future, failed "common" education system, state supported/tolerated exploition of citizens, failing police, falling justice system (if you ask they are meant to protect citizens), systematic deep rooted discrimination…

I agree with your assertion, war on any concept is doomed to fail and cause a backlash.

Your list begins to muddy the idea though. Poverty may be the only thing of great import mentioned.

Ignoring criminality (in the name of 'equity') develops into a situation seen in SF, Seattle and Portland. Preventing crime is not itself a draconian practice. Having some kind of penalty for criminal behavior is not draconian.

Ignoring crime and allowing criminals to go unpursued is a demoralizer for the entire community

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#24

Post by worker_person »

Jun8 wrote: post #13
ssully wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way does this give you hope that the right is moving more center?

Article states that Trump-backed candidates did not do well.

Last I checked most of them have done very well.

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#25

Post by logicchains »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #21
basisword wrote: post #6

I hope this is the beginning of a shift back towards the centre on both the right and the left.

Just for an additional perspective, for most of the world's democracies both the US republicans and democrats are very much on the right-wing side of the political spectrum. I am not saying there is anything wrong with American Democrats but if you look at actual policies they would be labeled centre right anywhere else in the world. As an American friend once put it to me "Americans believe luck is made, so social h…

>the world's democracies both the US republicans and democrats are very much on the right-wing side of the political spectrum

Not in terms of social policies. How many European centre-left policies support giving puberty blockers to children? How many European centre-left policies support abortion right up to the time of birth?

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#26

Post by worker_person »

beebmam wrote: post #20
avalys wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistics are not reality. Crime stats fell because the DA was so tolerant of crime, people stopped bothering to report anything but the most serious ones.

Is there evidence for this claim?

The evidence was stolen. Person filing the complaint was mugged. Mugger was hailed as a hero.

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#27

Post by upsidesinclude »

beebmam wrote: post #20
avalys wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistics are not reality. Crime stats fell because the DA was so tolerant of crime, people stopped bothering to report anything but the most serious ones.

Is there evidence for this claim?

Have you been to SF? That's your evidence

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#29

Post by vineyardmike »

beebmam wrote: post #20
avalys wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistics are not reality. Crime stats fell because the DA was so tolerant of crime, people stopped bothering to report anything but the most serious ones.

Is there evidence for this claim?

There is tons of AnecData suggesting this is true. The recalled DA himself admitted to not reporting his car breaking because he didn’t think it’d be prosecuted.

I can name roughly 10 people in my life who said they didn’t bother. Another 5 who went to police only to be told by them that there was nothing that would happen and that they shouldn’t waste time on finishing the paperwork. To complete the data, I know only 1 person who fully reported a crime, and it was an extreme violent crime.

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