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California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

drought.ca.gov

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Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#21

Post by briga »

thisNeeds2BeSad wrote: post #13

The irony being that israel has "solved" water problems in agriculture largely, by reusing waste water and drip irrigation and simply have the users pay for that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in... This sounds like a typical US thing. Suffering from a solveable problem, while creating the maximum public drama and having the society incapable of reform as a sort of greek-tragedy-background…

The situation is a bit more complex than you're making it out to be. Leaving aside the somewhat unique politics of Israel, it is a much smaller and more unified country than the US--the problems in the US are simply orders of magnitude bigger, even if you were to only consider California. If the solutions were in any way "easy" the drought problem would have been solved already. It isn't, and the percentage of the US with drought conditions isn't getting any smaller.

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#22

Post by newsclues »

briga wrote: post #21
thisNeeds2BeSad wrote: post #13

The irony being that israel has "solved" water problems in agriculture largely, by reusing waste water and drip irrigation and simply have the users pay for that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in... This sounds like a typical US thing. Suffering from a solveable problem, while creating the maximum public drama and having the society incapable of reform as a sort of greek-tragedy-background…

The situation is a bit more complex than you're making it out to be. Leaving aside the somewhat unique politics of Israel, it is a much smaller and more unified country than the US--the problems in the US are simply orders of magnitude bigger, even if you were to only consider California. If the solutions were in any way "easy" the drought problem would have been solved already. It isn't, and the percentage of the US…

If it was a scale instead of policy issue, there would be places in the US with effective policy, but because of scale not everywhere…

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#23

Post by throwaway0a5e »

michaelt wrote: post #10
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agricultural Water Rights are a complex issue...

A reduction in water consumption is needed. Agriculture uses 80% of the water - and pays far less for it than other users. Doesn't seem very complex to me?

That is an ignorant and short sighted viewpoint. There's all sorts of legal precedent tangling this up. While the math of where the water goes is straightforward you can't just invalidate prior agreements and rules and whatnot without going through the process otherwise you just cause more problems because you send a message and set a precedent that the state will not honor its own rules. In the long term that is very damaging.

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#24

Post by jjoonathan »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #23
michaelt wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A reduction in water consumption is needed. Agriculture uses 80% of the water - and pays far less for it than other users. Doesn't seem very complex to me?

That is an ignorant and short sighted viewpoint. There's all sorts of legal precedent tangling this up. While the math of where the water goes is straightforward you can't just invalidate prior agreements and rules and whatnot without going through the process otherwise you just cause more problems because you send a message and set a precedent that the state will not honor its own rules. In the long term that is ver…

No post body was provided.

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#25

Post by kordlessagain »

cersei wrote: post #20
thisNeeds2BeSad wrote: post #13

The irony being that israel has "solved" water problems in agriculture largely, by reusing waste water and drip irrigation and simply have the users pay for that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in... This sounds like a typical US thing. Suffering from a solveable problem, while creating the maximum public drama and having the society incapable of reform as a sort of greek-tragedy-background…

"This sounds like a typical US thing. Suffering from a solveable problem, while creating the maximum public drama and having the society incapable of reform as a sort of greek-tragedy-background chorus humming nimby." Love this summation of the US

We would prefer you don't summarize US until we are fully awake. :)

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#26

Post by bamboozled »

orlp wrote: post #2

"Californians are being asked to reduce their water use by 15 percent over 2020 levels to protect water reserves and help maintain critical flows for fish and wildlife wherever possible." And by that they surely mean agriculture, right? Right? The industry responsible for 80% of the water usage in California? They surely couldn't just be asking urban consumers to reduce? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/2…

This!

It's also why I don't like being told to stop eating beef / meat to stop the climate crisis when fracking and other ridiculous practices are still legal.

Food and nutrition is important.

Disclaimer: I tried being a vegetarian for 2 years, I didn't feel good mentally and physically so I went back to consuming meat. I'll probably try again another time.

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#27

Post by jillesvangurp »

orlp wrote: post #2

"Californians are being asked to reduce their water use by 15 percent over 2020 levels to protect water reserves and help maintain critical flows for fish and wildlife wherever possible." And by that they surely mean agriculture, right? Right? The industry responsible for 80% of the water usage in California? They surely couldn't just be asking urban consumers to reduce? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/2…

Either way, Californians should stop pretending water is cheap, plentiful or sourced in a sustainable way. It simply isn't. Instead of pointing fingers at each other, the best way is to price it accordingly. The root problem is that this is not the case and it's too cheap. And it's only cheap because it comes from non renewable sources that are getting scarcer. Everybody feels entitled to the cheap water and then ends up wasting it because it is so cheap.

More expensive water leads to people taking better care of what they do with it. E.g. watering a lawn because you like it to be green should not be close to free. Especially not in what is essentially a desert (which large parts of California effectively are). That's an epic waste of water. You should have the freedom to buy that water at a fair price and waste it as you please. But it should cost you. Lawns should be an expensive hobby.

Same with toilets. There's no need to flush five gallons every time you use the toilet. Less wasteful toilets exist. And of course, farmers can learn a thing or two about farming more sustainably. But why would they when that does not save them any money?

There is no shortage of water. California borders on the largest reservoir of it on the planet (the pacific). All it needs is a little bit of desalination. Lots of other countries do this at scale; typically because it is preferable to not having clean water. This takes energy and money but it can be done sustainably. If water was priced correctly, more water would be desalinated. Instead, aquifers are drained, former lakes are turned into salt lakes, etc.

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#28

Post by Melting_Harps »

Remember, Huntington Beach also refused to move forward with the desalination plant at a time of (extremely rare) budget surplus [0].

I hope this is taken into consideration, because conservation alone won't solve this problem: it plays a vital role, but it doesn't make water magically appear.

0: https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/desalination-plant-...

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#29

Post by refurb »

thisNeeds2BeSad wrote: post #13

The irony being that israel has "solved" water problems in agriculture largely, by reusing waste water and drip irrigation and simply have the users pay for that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in... This sounds like a typical US thing. Suffering from a solveable problem, while creating the maximum public drama and having the society incapable of reform as a sort of greek-tragedy-background…

”This sounds like a typical US thing. Suffering from a solveable problem, while creating the maximum public drama and having the society incapable of reform as a sort of greek-tragedy-background chorus humming nimby.”

I think you’re mistaking media hysteria for actual truth. I’m not surprised since social media feeds off articles like this.

California is semi-arid with a massive water source, it’s not Israel, which is actual desert and relies on hostile neighbors for most of its fresh water.

In CA we have so much water farmers can just flood fields. We have so much water we save some so the smelt can still spawn (which this report specifically mentions - save water so we can release a bunch for the fish). We have so much water that in many years we dump the extra into the ocean because our reservoirs are full. We have so much water it’s dirt cheap.

When supplies run a bit low, we cut back by doing extra big loads of laundry, turn the tap off when we brush our teeth and the world is right. A few lawns turn brown, SFers pat themselves on the back for their environmental righteousness while farmers continue to use 8x the amount of water for agriculture that all the combined households do.

Nobody is dying and nothing changes because it doesn’t have to change, at least not drastically. We’re drowning in water and when supplies drop a little we act like we’re all going to die of thirst. Worst case scenario the government tells a few almond farmers they can't have their water. The price of almonds goes up 5% and we don't have to feel guilty about washing our cars.

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#30

Post by xtiansimon »

orlp wrote: post #2

"Californians are being asked to reduce their water use by 15 percent over 2020 levels to protect water reserves and help maintain critical flows for fish and wildlife wherever possible." And by that they surely mean agriculture, right? Right? The industry responsible for 80% of the water usage in California? They surely couldn't just be asking urban consumers to reduce? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/2…

Why would California agriculture conserve, when last week in Long Island, NY we were enjoying California cherries at 5.99/lb? Though, one wonders if that profit might not be less due to high gas price to get them here.
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