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Complete Entanglement (Modern Slavery)

bootstrappingindependence.com

21–28 of 28 posts

Re: Complete Entanglement (Modern Slavery)

#21
Why do people have this mindset? You aren't forced to work for anyone.

If you feel that being an employee is slavery, start your own company. At least for now, you still have the freedom to do this in the US.

Freedom means you have to take responsibility for your own life. If you rack of $10K in debt and can't pay it back, you will be a slave to it.

I learned my lesson with debt years ago and haven't kept a balance on my credit card since. It takes discipline to not live beyond your means and most people just don't have this discipline and it gets them into trouble.

This is also why so few people are actually successful at business. They won't stick it out when times get tough and give up when they aren't making a profit right now.

Re: Complete Entanglement (Modern Slavery)

#22
post #19

Thanks for posting. Something about this rubs me the wrong way, so I read it a couple times to help me formulate my feedback. I think the problem I have with this is that I can't create the same level of abstraction on the 'modern system' and 'slavery' that the author does. I'm not offended by the use of slavery as a point of comparison, but I don't think that it's really compared to the 'modern system' in a useful w…

"Recognizing the artificial/restrictions and subverting it to make your life better" - I think we all strive to do that. Like you, I have some reserves will the article, but it definitely rings a bell. Yet how exactly is creating a company any better? If you keep servicing other people interest, it could be called an illusion of freedom. You will compromise yourself at a time or another. If you hire people to really…

"Yet how exactly is creating a company any better? If you keep servicing other people interest, it could be called an illusion of freedom"

If you sell a product or service, you get to choose what goes into that product or service. Look at apple: If they listened to the general public, the Ipad would have never been released.

" You will compromise yourself at a time or another."

You don't ever need to. Plenty of companies release what they want and it just so happens to coincide with what other people want.

Re: Complete Entanglement (Modern Slavery)

#24

Thanks for posting. Something about this rubs me the wrong way, so I read it a couple times to help me formulate my feedback. I think the problem I have with this is that I can't create the same level of abstraction on the 'modern system' and 'slavery' that the author does. I'm not offended by the use of slavery as a point of comparison, but I don't think that it's really compared to the 'modern system' in a useful w…

Thanks for the feedback - you make some good points.

I started from the point of slavery mostly in response to other authors who describe the modern system of employee/employer as slavery, which I think is the wrong word, but it seems I didn't do quite a good enough job of making that clear.

It isn't that consumerism & 50 hour work weeks are inescapable, only that they are difficult to escape and remain in mainstream society at the same time. Looking at people who have chosen alternate lifestyles (Like ERE or being a bum as someone else pointed out) are often marginalized ans ostracized - the system does not seem to like that they challenge the basic assumptions of what is good about our society.

I personally have been trying to bootstrap a startup as a way to escape some of the control a 9-5 brings with it, but I don't see entrepreneurship as a catch-all solution. As another article I am working on will point out, Startups are better off in some areas but are also often forced to trade off in others. Depending on the structure, leading a startup may often be worse from a lifestyle design perspective than working for a corporation.

I don't have a general purpose "solution" to the problem of dis-satisfaction in modern society, but I do know that what we have going for us is sub-optimal, and I would like to find alternate ways of living and structuring society to address some of the issues I tried to bring to light.

Thanks for the feedback - I think perhaps I will expand on the areas you mention in the future to help make it more clear. I would appreciate your input :)

Re: Complete Entanglement (Modern Slavery)

#25
post #13

What a load of junk. Pardon my French, but this is not slavery by any stretch of the imagination. This is modern slavery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_slavery Poor impulse control with respect to buying gadgets, thinking you have to keep up with the neighbours, assuming that you can be part of society without having to pull your weight, calling employers 'owners', ignoring social security (which is quite…

Did you read the article? To me, the first half of the article basically said, "the term slavery is not applicable". And then the second half introduced the term entanglement instead.

In other words, the author agrees with you.

Re: Complete Entanglement (Modern Slavery)

#26
post #13

What a load of junk. Pardon my French, but this is not slavery by any stretch of the imagination. This is modern slavery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_slavery Poor impulse control with respect to buying gadgets, thinking you have to keep up with the neighbours, assuming that you can be part of society without having to pull your weight, calling employers 'owners', ignoring social security (which is quite…

Did you read the article? To me, the first half of the article basically said, "the term slavery is not applicable". And then the second half introduced the term entanglement instead. In other words, the author agrees with you.

One of the most tiring responses to a comment is 'did you read the article'. Yes, of course I read the article.

I thought of doing a 'point by point' because that seems to be the only way to respond a pile of nonsense like this without getting that particular response.

I choose not to because that would be overlong and it would not add anything.

The only thing this article shows is that if you use your creativity that you can stretch any term to mean anything. The only other party that I'm aware of that plays word and mindgames like this with its audience is scientology.

If you don't want to be a part of society you're free to opt-out, or to organize politically in order to effect change that makes society into what you want it to be.

No slave ever had that option, and no modern day slave has that option.

The author makes it seem as though we are all part of some gigantic mechanism that enslaves us all, and that we collectively would be better off by following his 4 step plan to 'independence', but he fails to notice that his 4 step plan simply leads to a much higher level of dependency but on different entities (aka customers).

Society is built on those dependencies, we enter into them voluntarily and there is absolutely nothing wrong with them.

Bad choices lead to feeling bad, so think before you commit to something, including starting a business.

Fast forward 4 years and we'll be seeing blog posts about 'how I'm going to free myself from being a slave of my customers'.

Slavery has absolutely nothing to do with it, not even in spirit or peripherally. Entanglement is a meaningless term, we already have a word that fits perfectly well: citizenship, which happens to have the opposite meaning of being a slave.

Re: Complete Entanglement (Modern Slavery)

#27
I believe that the more common term for disentanglement is 'liberation', and the freedom from entanglement is more commonly referred to as 'liberty'. I'm not sure why the author used such roundabout language to make the observation that both debt and employment restrict one's liberty, albeit voluntarily (unlike the very different case of slavery, which is by definition not voluntary).

Re: Complete Entanglement (Modern Slavery)

#28
It's interesting, I recently realized that the word "work" in Russian is just a derivative from "slave". Also interestingly enough, the word "slave" in english has its roots from "slavs" - people who populated the area of contemporary European Russia and were often enslaved.
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