Dropping out is probably not for you • Hacker News Board

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#21

Post by alexholehouse » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:30 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #16

I don't think (2) is correct: You don't like to learn, and you need more money...Don't do it. Why? Because that stuff you learn you will need later on, and you will need it badly. Of all the stuff I learned in college, I needed very little of it. This includes many classes I enjoyed. Most of it I've forgotten already. Not only that, I didn't even take the traditional college -> job route - I stayed in academia for 8…

You may not use "what" you learn, but the skills you developed to help get through exams, hit deadlines, learn complicated concepts and work in groups are invaluable.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#22

Post by eof » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:34 PM UTC

Surprised by the lack of support for dropping out.

Is a 4 year education and a degree valuable? Of course.

Is it worth $xx,000 in student debt and 4 year opportunity cost of doing something else? Rarely. Especially for this crowd.

If you are a 19 year old with some programming skills, and you are paying for your own college (via loans or with cash) dropping out is a GREAT idea. Spend the next three years working on your own projects, open source projects, crappy little free lance whatever.. you are going to be in a much better spot than if you spent the next three years going to classes and coming out with 50k in student loan debt.

If college is free, then yeah, you are crazy not to go. But if you are smart and willing to work hard anyway.. education is FREE these days. Save the cost of the house and the years.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#23

Post by cperciva » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:36 PM UTC

ctdonath wrote: post #15

Notice that all the lauded examples of "well, X dropped out and made it big!" entail X starting the business during schools and being so wildly successful at it that school was just in the way. Michael Dell was spending all his waking hours building PCs in his dorm. Gates was well on his way to selling DOS to IBM. Each had already gotten to where college helps you go. Remember Gladwell's "10,000 hours" rule of thumb…

50 hours per week for 50 weeks per year for 4 years is 10,000 hours

Or for most students, 40 hours per week for 16 weeks per term for 2 terms per year for 4 years is 5,120 hours.

Which might just explain why students coming out of college tend to be at most half good at something.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#24

Post by pitt1980 » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:45 PM UTC

dfield wrote: post #14

kiba wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sleep deprivation. Drunk people. Final exam stress. Sleep deprivation and final exam stress is mostly our own making. If you use SRS and study regularly, I am sure the college life is no problem.

SRS?

I think he's referencing a spaced repetition system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition_system

they have software where you can set up a flashcard system if you know what you are doing, and it will time out when you should review what for optimal memorization

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#25

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:47 PM UTC

ctdonath wrote: post #15

Notice that all the lauded examples of "well, X dropped out and made it big!" entail X starting the business during schools and being so wildly successful at it that school was just in the way. Michael Dell was spending all his waking hours building PCs in his dorm. Gates was well on his way to selling DOS to IBM. Each had already gotten to where college helps you go. Remember Gladwell's "10,000 hours" rule of thumb…

[deleted]

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#26

Post by mklappstuhl » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:51 PM UTC

This is interesting. I just read four points and was completely like: "Not me, not me, not me, not me."

Then I read the fifth point and just thought: "This more likely me. Except for the savings and the acing of exams without learning."

I was a little confused about the "Do it" since all other points ended with "Don't do it" but it has been fun.

Thanks for this article.

PS. I am about to pause studying for half a year to one year and than continue to study. I am 19.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#27

Post by michaelochurch » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:52 PM UTC

kiba wrote: post #13

michaelochurch wrote: post #10

Thank you. Excellent article that needs to be read by everyone who's considering dropping out for "a startup". Let's ignore the complexities and focus on crude market value. A smart person with no college degree can probably earn $25,000 per year at 18. We're assuming a middle to upper-middle class background-- no special family connections-- and a reasonable work ethic. With a CS, math, or science degree from a good…

Sleep deprivation. Drunk people. Final exam stress. Sleep deprivation and final exam stress is mostly our own making. If you use SRS and study regularly, I am sure the college life is no problem.

I would make it simpler than that.

1. Don't procrastinate and get distracted. Even if you're taking hard courses, a college course load is rarely more than 50 hours per week. Average in hard majors is probably 35-40 all-in. That's not onerous at all, especially when you're only working 40 weeks per year (including internship).

2. Concentrate on learning interesting stuff, not on the grades. Good-enough grades (3.5+) will come from this for most people in most circumstances. There are hard-ass professors and even unfair ones (although I never had an unfair professor) but they are very rare and their damage is seriously limited.

I find it odd when college students claim they're going to sue professors over grades. Really? In college you're judged on the average of 30-40 (!) mostly independent grades. If you flunk a class and ace the other 35, you have a 3.89 GPA. In the real world, manager as career-SPOF is pretty much the default.

That said, I dislike grade inflation because it adds to the stress of college. If 2.0 were average, then acing a course could cancel out a failure. (When my parents were in college, a 2.5 was a perfectly respectable GPA and 3.0 was actually good.) With 3.2 as the average, flunking a course cancels out 4 As. That sucks. It makes people risk-averse and stressed out.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#28

Post by TheloniusPhunk » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:53 PM UTC

I'd just like to say that if you're too lazy for University, then you're fucked either way.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#29

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:55 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #9

edw519 wrote: post #3

The simplest test of whether or not you should drop out is this one: If you have to ask someone if you should then you shouldn't. I think I have a simpler test: Do you have a customer? Of all the things that you need to do to start a successful business, I think that getting someone to pay you for your work is the hardest. Deceptively hard. I've seen it all too often: Good technical skills. Check. Good design skills.…

I agree with you. Students have more disposable time than any other segment of the population except the unemployed/out of school. If a person in school cannot build and sell something while still in school, then dropping out isn't likely to help. Getting an MVP build and finding those first critical customers (if they even exist) should be perfectly feasible while still going to class.

[deleted]

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#30

Post by abyssknight » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:58 PM UTC

eof wrote: post #22

Surprised by the lack of support for dropping out. Is a 4 year education and a degree valuable? Of course. Is it worth $xx,000 in student debt and 4 year opportunity cost of doing something else? Rarely. Especially for this crowd. If you are a 19 year old with some programming skills, and you are paying for your own college (via loans or with cash) dropping out is a GREAT idea. Spend the next three years working on y…

I have to disagree. A college education costs about $26,000 for Florida residents here in Orlando for a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science. Compare that to my first year's salary which was roughly double that, and the cost begins to look minimal.

The opportunity cost is relative, since the people you meet in college may very well be the best resources you have for maintaining your drive, innovative spirit, and will to keep on. Just the discipline of finishing something is worth the time and money spent. That said, it depends on _you_ and your situation.

Personally, I wouldn't be who I am today without suffering with my peers through classes like CS1, Discrete Structures, and Computer Architecture. My first piece of real consulting work, the first proposal I ever wrote, was for an ad on our local university's job board.

Disclaimer: The total cost of my education was paid by scholarships, so I do not have first hand knowledge of how this works, just providing my anecdote. $26,000 figure was calculated using my in state invoices from 2003-2007 so they may need adjusting for inflation.