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Grandpa’s Basement House

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Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#21

Post by netizen-936824 »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #17
tomcam wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those kinds of folk need representation the most. An understandable sentiment. How much are you willing to pay for it? If you have a $1.5 million mortgage and that loon shows up next door and paints their house purple, your house might lose $300,000 in value. Same with the other neighbors, who also pay mortgages but aren’t as compassionate as you. What happens when your spouse gets a sudden offer to relocate and yo…

Shocking how quickly peoples opinions change on this stuff when an eccentric next door can lower the value of their own investments

Maybe we shouldn't think about housing as an investment

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#22

Post by technothrasher »

gorgoiler wrote: post #3

The idea of HOAs having any kind of say feels so undemocratic, but not in a standard way. We should not tolerate purely popular democracies. We allow representative democracies, and part of that public contract is for our leaders to represent all those in their constituency, not just those who voted for them. That means those in the minority. The crazy guy growing gourds instead of a lawn. The loon with the purple ho…

> We should not tolerate purely popular democracies.

Open town meetings, which are pure democracies, have been working pretty well in New England for quite a long time now, with the biggest issues in modern times being low attendence and committee overstep.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#23

Post by pvg »

djvdq wrote: post #16
next_xibalba wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the author is describing are rules of homeowner's associations and other similar organizations. Individuals freely enter agreements with homeowner's associations which dictate land use. One is also free to choose to live in a place not governed by these rules. But, they are not the law of the land and they do not implicate a lack of freedom in the U.S. relative to other countries. Its quite silly to suggest as m…

Simple question - if you want to leave HOA and after that grow vegetables, can you do that? If not - it has nothing to do with freedom. It's only propaganda of having the most freedom when citizens of a lot of "non free" countries (by American standards) will laugh at your absurds. I'm not saying USA is not free country - of course you are free. I'm only saying that telling that you have the most freedom is at least…

"most freedom" is a thing you brought up yourself to start a silly flamewar. This stuff is in the guidelines:

Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents.

Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#24

Post by rvba »

djvdq wrote: post #16
next_xibalba wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the author is describing are rules of homeowner's associations and other similar organizations. Individuals freely enter agreements with homeowner's associations which dictate land use. One is also free to choose to live in a place not governed by these rules. But, they are not the law of the land and they do not implicate a lack of freedom in the U.S. relative to other countries. Its quite silly to suggest as m…

Simple question - if you want to leave HOA and after that grow vegetables, can you do that? If not - it has nothing to do with freedom. It's only propaganda of having the most freedom when citizens of a lot of "non free" countries (by American standards) will laugh at your absurds. I'm not saying USA is not free country - of course you are free. I'm only saying that telling that you have the most freedom is at least…

Looking at the /r/fuckhoa subreddit it seems that those homeovner associations are on level of North Korea and Soviet Russia - someone can come to your property (didnt happen in Eastern Europe even during communism), spy on you, fine you for not parking your car at the garage, fine you 500 dollars for putting a motorcycle outside your house, fine you for having drapes of different color, fine you for having a dog... and many more.

I cant figure out how this works in a country with more guns than people. If those egomaniac HOA people enter someone's property - wont they get shot?

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#25

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

iratewizard wrote: post #4
geoffeg wrote: post #2

> Growing vegetables on what should be a lawn is verboten in many locations, if not by the government than by private association bylaws. I'm aware that some HOAs limit (sometimes to what seems like an extreme) what can be done with the yard and lawn, but I wasn't aware of any governments that ban growing vegetables. Is that more common in water-restricted municipalities? (I live in midwestern US, where backyard gard…

I've never heard of anything like that. Outside of HOAs, most regulations we see about the front are length of grass, what can and can't be done at the easement, public health issues, and maybe laws about invasive plant species. My wife used to work at a company that codified these laws, and she didn't know of anything either.

My HOA defines the acceptable types of trees, plants, and shrubs that can be planted. I don’t know if vegetables are restricted, but you cannot plant anything you want.

This is common in colorado.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#26

Post by macinjosh »

djvdq wrote: post #16
next_xibalba wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the author is describing are rules of homeowner's associations and other similar organizations. Individuals freely enter agreements with homeowner's associations which dictate land use. One is also free to choose to live in a place not governed by these rules. But, they are not the law of the land and they do not implicate a lack of freedom in the U.S. relative to other countries. Its quite silly to suggest as m…

Simple question - if you want to leave HOA and after that grow vegetables, can you do that? If not - it has nothing to do with freedom. It's only propaganda of having the most freedom when citizens of a lot of "non free" countries (by American standards) will laugh at your absurds. I'm not saying USA is not free country - of course you are free. I'm only saying that telling that you have the most freedom is at least…

You have an incredibly narrow minded and immature view of freedom.

Some people _like_ living in neighborhoods with these bylaws/HOAs. You are fully made aware of the bylaws before you purchase the property and you can decide for yourself whether or not it works for you.

I live in the US and in my immediate area there are neighborhoods without these bylaws, some with, and there is even agricultural use land mixed in. So if you don't like the places with the bylaws there are many other options. In the US you have the freedom to choose among many different ways of life.

Freedom isn't about being able to do whatever you want, wherever you want, at anyone's expense. It is about being able to find and construct a life that makes you and those around you happy. The _only_ way to do that is to not have one over-bearing set of rules (even if the rule is there are no rules), but to allow people to voluntarily set up their own systems of rules in their own communities.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#27

Post by harshalizee »

tomcam wrote: post #14
gorgoiler wrote: post #3

The idea of HOAs having any kind of say feels so undemocratic, but not in a standard way. We should not tolerate purely popular democracies. We allow representative democracies, and part of that public contract is for our leaders to represent all those in their constituency, not just those who voted for them. That means those in the minority. The crazy guy growing gourds instead of a lawn. The loon with the purple ho…

> Those kinds of folk need representation the most. An understandable sentiment. How much are you willing to pay for it? If you have a $1.5 million mortgage and that loon shows up next door and paints their house purple, your house might lose $300,000 in value. Same with the other neighbors, who also pay mortgages but aren’t as compassionate as you. What happens when your spouse gets a sudden offer to relocate and yo…

>What happens when your spouse gets a sudden offer to relocate and you can’t make your money back on the house?

How is that someone else's problem? Ironically, in some areas around me properties without HOAs are priced and selling a couple of 100ks higher than ones within HOAs.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#28

Post by mmh0000 »

gorgoiler wrote: post #3

The idea of HOAs having any kind of say feels so undemocratic, but not in a standard way. We should not tolerate purely popular democracies. We allow representative democracies, and part of that public contract is for our leaders to represent all those in their constituency, not just those who voted for them. That means those in the minority. The crazy guy growing gourds instead of a lawn. The loon with the purple ho…

When I bought my first house, I purposefully avoided any neighborhood with an HOA because of all the internet scare mongering I had heard over the years.

After ten years of one neighbor parking cars on their lawn, another growing more weeds than blades of grass, and another with 8 vehicles parked along the street I was done.

When I bought my second house I specifically wanted an HOA. After another 6 years, I couldn’t be happier. Yes the HOA prevents me from doing a handful of things, things that aren’t really a big deal in the grand scheme of things. While the HOA keeps the entire neighborhood looking nice and slaps people on the wrist when they need it.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#29

Post by MereInterest »

next_xibalba wrote: post #9
djvdq wrote: post #6

> Growing vegetables on what should be a lawn is verboten in many locations, if not by the government than by private association bylaws. So again, USA is country with most freedom? Freedom™, but you can't grow vegetables on your own property. Or you will be punished for having too long grass. Lmao

What the author is describing are rules of homeowner's associations and other similar organizations. Individuals freely enter agreements with homeowner's associations which dictate land use. One is also free to choose to live in a place not governed by these rules. But, they are not the law of the land and they do not implicate a lack of freedom in the U.S. relative to other countries. Its quite silly to suggest as m…

Suppose it's the 1960s, and you want to buy something to eat. Your choices are "Go home and make food." and "Go to a smoke-filled restaurant and buy food." The choice of "Go to a non-smoking restaurant and buy food." doesn't exist in that environment, because there are no such restaurants. It would be silly to state that this is a free choice indicating a preference for smoke-filled restaurants, because there is no alternative that maintains the option of going to a restaurant.

Depending on the location, the only houses available may have mandatory HOA membership. If the choice is "Join an HOA or add 30 minutes to your commute.", that isn't a free choice. If the choice is "Join an HOA or find a job in another city.", that isn't a free choice. Depending on the area, mandated HOA membership may be the de facto law of the land, even if it isn't the de jure law of the land.

Choices must always be compared to their alternative, and using a non-existent Hobbesian state of nature as the alternative is overly simplistic.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#30

Post by djvdq »

quesera wrote: post #20
iamevn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unsure is the emphasis on "freely" is sarcasm but people absolutely don't have freedom when it comes to accepting HOA terms. If the house you can get has a shitty HOA then you're stuck with it. It took us dozens of offers (all well over asking price) before we finally had one that got through and there's no way we'd be able to be picky about HOA.

> people absolutely don't have freedom when it comes to accepting HOA terms Of course they do. If you don't like income tax, move to WA. If you don't like sales tax, move to OR. (If you like them both, move to CA!). These choices have inherent compromises. If you don't like HOAs, choose a different neighborhood. Again, inherent compromises. But freedom of movement is guaranteed to all (non-incarcerated) US citizens.…

Freedom of movement is only one kind of freedom. Freedom of growing your own carrot on your own property is another.

Just don't say that you Americans are more free than other nations. Because you are simply not.

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