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AI recognition of patient race in medical imaging: a modelling study

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Re: AI recognition of patient race in medical imaging: a modelling study

#21

What does this mean in terms of race being a social construct/concept?

Ever more complicated attempts to bridge the gap by muddying the waters.

Frankly, even a freshly arrived alien from Mars or Titan could easily tell Icelanders, Mongols and Xhosa apart, without knowing anything about our culture. The fact that there has been a lot of interbreeding/admixture since the Age of Sail began, does not mean that there aren't meaningful biological differences between the original groups, which still obviously exist.

An analogy: much like the existence of twilight does not render the concept of night and day a 'social construct' either. We attach certain social meanings to those natural phenomena, and a 'working day' can easily stretch into 'astronomical night' (all too often!), but that does not mean that 'night' and 'day' do not exist outside of our cultural reference framework.

There is a social concept of 'race' which corresponds to the 'working day' concept in this analogy, e.g. 'BIPOC', claiming Asians as 'white adjacent' or classifying North Africans or Jews as 'white', even though they may not necessarily look white. But this is almost certainly not what the AI identified. This social concept of race would confuse a Martian alien unless he started to study the social and racial history of the U.S., and possibly even afterwards. It definitely confuses me, a random observer from Central Europe.

Re: AI recognition of patient race in medical imaging: a modelling study

#22

Simply go to google image and search: "skeletal racial differences". subspecies are found across species-- they happen based on geographic dispersion and geographic isolation, which humans underwent for tens and hundreds of thousands of years. Welcome to the sciences of anatomy, anthropology, and forensics. other differences: - slow twitch vs fast twitch muscle - teeth shape - shapes and colors of various parts - gen…

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Re: AI recognition of patient race in medical imaging: a modelling study

#23

Given the complexity of datasets, and what is known about the quality of medical scanners, is it possible that underserved communities (ie higher noise scanners) serve a specific community that is heavily skewed in race distributions?

"our finding that AI can accurately predict self-reported race, even from corrupted, cropped, and noised medical images"

It doesn't seem like noise in the images is a factor

Re: AI recognition of patient race in medical imaging: a modelling study

#24

What does this mean in terms of race being a social construct/concept?

Science does not claim that race is a social construct/concept...

While I agree with you that “social construct” isn’t the right way to think about it, the authors in this very paper say that it is.

Re: AI recognition of patient race in medical imaging: a modelling study

#25
post #10

One idea is that there is some difference in the x-rays themselves that could potentially be explained by racial disparities in access to (and quality of) healthcare. Maybe white people tend to visit hospitals with newer, better equipment or better trained radiographers and the model is picking up on differences in the exposures from that.

They mostly accounted for this:

>Race prediction performance was also robust across models trained on single equipment and single hospital location on the chest x-ray and mammogram datasets

Sure, it’s possible that bias due to the radiographer is the culprit, but this seems unlikely.

Re: AI recognition of patient race in medical imaging: a modelling study

#26
"This issue creates an enormous risk for all model deployments in medical imaging: if an AI model relies on its ability to detect racial identity to make medical decisions, but in doing so produced race-specific errors, clinical radiologists would not be able to tell, thereby possibly leading to errors in health-care decision processes."

Why would a model rely on its ability to detect racial identity to make decisions?

What kind of errors are race-specific?

Re: AI recognition of patient race in medical imaging: a modelling study

#27

Simply go to google image and search: "skeletal racial differences". subspecies are found across species-- they happen based on geographic dispersion and geographic isolation, which humans underwent for tens and hundreds of thousands of years. Welcome to the sciences of anatomy, anthropology, and forensics. other differences: - slow twitch vs fast twitch muscle - teeth shape - shapes and colors of various parts - gen…

The article is pretty fascinating and I recommend that you actually read it. For example:

>"We found that deep learning models effectively predicted patient race even when the bone density information was removed for both MXR (AUC value for Black patients: 0·960 [CI 0·958–0·963]) and CXP (AUC value for Black patients: 0·945 [CI 0·94–0·949]) datasets. The average pixel thresholds for different tissues did not produce any usable signal to detect race (AUC 0·5). These findings suggest that race information was not localised within the brightest pixels within the image (eg, in the bone)."

Re: AI recognition of patient race in medical imaging: a modelling study

#28
post #8

What does this mean in terms of race being a social construct/concept?

Perhaps there is some quality of the x rays themselves that is different? Maybe white people tend to visit hospitals with newer, better equipment or better trained radiographers and the model is picking up on differences in the exposures from that.

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Re: AI recognition of patient race in medical imaging: a modelling study

#29
post #10

One idea is that there is some difference in the x-rays themselves that could potentially be explained by racial disparities in access to (and quality of) healthcare. Maybe white people tend to visit hospitals with newer, better equipment or better trained radiographers and the model is picking up on differences in the exposures from that.

That's an interesting confounding variable. I think it's disproven by the fact that the AUC is too high given your hypothesis.

Re: AI recognition of patient race in medical imaging: a modelling study

#30
> Models trained on low-pass filtered images maintained high performance even for highly degraded images. More strikingly, models that were trained on high-pass filtered images maintained performance well beyond the point that the degraded images contained no recognisable structures; to the human coauthors and radiologists it was not clear that the image was an x-ray at all.

What voodoo have they unearthed?

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