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Ten years of trying to meditate

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Re: Ten years of trying to meditate

#21

Post by lpcrealmadrid »

ksd482 wrote: post #16
weldedtogether wrote: post #13

Siddhartha is a fantastic book, it changed how I look at pain, love, and everything in-between. I recommend even if you're like me and don't want to meditate to read Siddhartha, it helped me step out of my own headspace into a way of thinking that actively tries to step further and further out from myself.

Can you please provide a link to the book? I searched and there seem to be several of them with the same name. Thanks!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00UCI9ODE/ref=tmm_kin_swatch...

Really hope you enjoy it :)

Re: Ten years of trying to meditate

#22

Post by puchatek »

I gave up after about 1,5 years which included a while year of almost daily body scans die about half an hour an even a full on Vipassana retreat. While my practice seemed to improve somewhat i simply didn't perceive any benefits within my psyche. It would not even calm me down. In the end it just didn't feel like it was worth the time investment.

These days i will pay attention to my breath at times when i cannot fall asleep. And that's about it.

Re: Ten years of trying to meditate

#23

Post by Donckele »

ksd482 wrote: post #16
weldedtogether wrote: post #13

Siddhartha is a fantastic book, it changed how I look at pain, love, and everything in-between. I recommend even if you're like me and don't want to meditate to read Siddhartha, it helped me step out of my own headspace into a way of thinking that actively tries to step further and further out from myself.

Can you please provide a link to the book? I searched and there seem to be several of them with the same name. Thanks!

Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhartha_(novel)

Re: Ten years of trying to meditate

#24

Post by d82nsjk9 »

bowsamic wrote: post #17
bitcurious wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, be careful - meditation in the context of Buddhism is a marketing funnel backed by 2500 years of experience. It systematically breaks down your value system and replaces it with one that puts Buddhist practice at the core. So if you’re not looking for a religious awakening don’t take any of their advice too seriously.

Yes, it will break down your values. Unfortunately if you have the taste of bodhicitta: the mind that wants to awaken and liberate yourself and others from suffering, then you will mostly be forced to do it. I don’t recommend meditation or Buddhism for all, it will change your life in many ways that you will consider bad from your current point of view. Less motivation for tackling stressful tasks, less romantic atta…

> Less motivation for tackling stressful tasks, less romantic attachment, less hunger for new experiences, often an increased neurosis, etc.

Bold statement that piqued my interest. Do you have backing sources or pointers to this topic?

Re: Ten years of trying to meditate

#25

Post by mtalantikite »

bowsamic wrote: post #11
hprotagonist wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solitude during practice is not the same as abandonment of a community. Monks don't live alone; even hermits have (admittedly small) communities. You need the feedback loop.

Not true, in Tibetan Buddhism they have a strong tradition of solitary retreats in caves often for 9 years or more

They'll often still interact with or encounter others during these long retreats though. Or, in Kukkuripa's case, at least their dog. [1]

Some friends/teachers of mine will maybe do 2-4 weeks solitary each year, but sangha is still important.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukkuripa

Re: Ten years of trying to meditate

#26

Post by sabellito »

bowsamic wrote: post #9

My biggest advice for anyone is to not ignore the traditional advice. Secular meditation practises based on Buddhist meditation take the practise out of its context in a quick and forceful way. Buddhism has had 2500 years to slowly develop and work out what works and what does not. It is quite dangerous to take it and call the parts that do not immediately appeal to the secular western mind, like devotion, worship, c…

I'm going to call bs on your claim that you "personally know two people who went into severe psychosis and depression".

Since we're in "my personal experience"-land, I've been meditating and have been around people who meditate daily for 26 years. Never seen or heard about anything close to what you describe.

Re: Ten years of trying to meditate

#27

Post by vorpalhex »

MrMan wrote: post #6

I switched from meditation to contemplation. we are here to use our feeble brains not shut them off.

The original form of meditation meant "to think" and the classical texts don't differentiate between "thinking" and "deeply meditating".

I don't personally care for the spaced out kind of meditation. I tend to focus internally and deeply on something I want to explore or feel.

Re: Ten years of trying to meditate

#28

Post by roody15 »

bowsamic wrote: post #9

My biggest advice for anyone is to not ignore the traditional advice. Secular meditation practises based on Buddhist meditation take the practise out of its context in a quick and forceful way. Buddhism has had 2500 years to slowly develop and work out what works and what does not. It is quite dangerous to take it and call the parts that do not immediately appeal to the secular western mind, like devotion, worship, c…

Disclaimer: This is probably going to make me sound crazy but perhaps it’s fitting.

In a deeply meditative state you can open up yourself to a spiritual state of perception. In this transcendental state you can attract other spiritual and ethereal entities. Not all of which are benevolent.

Lots of the meditative mantras, prayers and rituals perhaps are meant to ward off negative entities and even perhaps attract compassionate and positive spiritual forces

In a sense train yourself to open the door to different states of mind … this and of itself doesn’t equal enlightenment or happiness.

Re: Ten years of trying to meditate

#29

Post by taeric »

bowsamic wrote: post #9

My biggest advice for anyone is to not ignore the traditional advice. Secular meditation practises based on Buddhist meditation take the practise out of its context in a quick and forceful way. Buddhism has had 2500 years to slowly develop and work out what works and what does not. It is quite dangerous to take it and call the parts that do not immediately appeal to the secular western mind, like devotion, worship, c…

I don't know. This still feels heavy in the propaganda realm. Which... to be clear, propaganda works. Turns out, telling people directly how and what to feel is more effective than makes sense.

That is, looking at it as 2500 years of successfully developing what works is hiding a lot of the failure that has accompanied things in that same time span. Is akin to saying that the religions that avoid certain foods are on to something, because no way something like that would stick without a solid reason.

To that end, the folks you know that had a mental breakdown. Is there a counterfactual world where they did not have a breakdown by avoiding meditation? Or by picking it up with a new religion? My priors are low that that is the case, but I would be delighted to learn more.

Re: Ten years of trying to meditate

#30

Post by vorpalhex »

sabellito wrote: post #26
bowsamic wrote: post #9

My biggest advice for anyone is to not ignore the traditional advice. Secular meditation practises based on Buddhist meditation take the practise out of its context in a quick and forceful way. Buddhism has had 2500 years to slowly develop and work out what works and what does not. It is quite dangerous to take it and call the parts that do not immediately appeal to the secular western mind, like devotion, worship, c…

I'm going to call bs on your claim that you "personally know two people who went into severe psychosis and depression". Since we're in "my personal experience"-land, I've been meditating and have been around people who meditate daily for 26 years. Never seen or heard about anything close to what you describe.

Out of a study of about a thousand people who were asked to start a daily meditation process (with weekly check-ins), about 20% reported at least one negative episode.

Now, that included everything from "feeling sad" to full blown panic attack.

I'll see if I can dig up that particular study. Here is a similar one which tracked longterm meditators:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1428622/

> However, of the twenty-seven subjects, seventeen (62.9%) reported at least one adverse effect, and two (7.4%) suffered profound adverse effects.

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