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Carvana laid off 2,500 employees today via a pre-recorded message through zoom

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Re: Carvana laid off 2,500 employees today via a pre-recorded message through zoom

#21

Post by vba616 »

bko wrote: post #11
grrrrrbox wrote: post #3

How has Carvana been doing over the past year? They focused on reducing the friction in buying/selling used cars, right? I wonder if they could have suffered from the supply crunch. Last I checked, 5-year-old Corollas were pushing $20k, and a new base model is about the same price. Anecdotally, I checked Carvana and local dealers when I was looking for a car recently, because I usually buy $5k beaters and drive them…

> I wonder if they could have suffered from the supply crunch. Last I checked, 5-year-old Corollas were pushing $20k, and a new base model is about the same price. There are no new base models available at dealerships and they're not expected any time soon. The list price hasn't caught up to the market conditions so they don't ship any base trim models. The higher trim models are available but dealerships charge 5-10…

I got a new hybrid for around $23K in late 2020, when it looked like I might be commuting again in the near future, and car sales and gas prices were both in the toilet.

For some incomprehensible reason people were buying the nearly-identical non-hybrid model for essentially the same price. It makes me think of the Bloom County cartoon: "Louise, dump the milk! The cat drinks unleaded from now on!"

Now, cars like mine, with 12K miles are being advertised for $30K, sometimes more.

In the meantime, my employer has just eliminated the health-based accommodations that let some people telecommute full time, just as we've got a solid month or so of rising covid cases and the governor setting policies tested positive.

Re: Carvana laid off 2,500 employees today via a pre-recorded message through zoom

#22

Post by credit_guy »

bin_bash wrote: post #12

Am I weird that I would prefer being let go like this over an awkward 1:1? Especially if it’s a day where people are being called in one by one to be told the bad news. Let me know on Zoom or hell just send an email and let me move on with my life.

> awkward 1:1

It does not have to be awkward. The manager can show sympathy, and offer support as much as they can. The person who is being laid off may try to hit the job market right away, and the manager can offer guidance (what the employee should brush up on), references, could try to introduce them to acquaintances. Many times some lucky people manage to move internally, and the manager's support is invaluable in such cases.

And by the way, the manager can also say something like this: "tomorrow I may lose my job too, so I might need your reference, if you think I deserve it". And they should be truthful about it, because, honestly, nobody is immune from layoffs (if you think you are, then it means you are severely underpaid, so try to rectify that).

Re: Carvana laid off 2,500 employees today via a pre-recorded message through zoom

#23

Post by tempnow987 »

pyuser583 wrote: post #15
tempnow987 wrote: post #2

Note that for legal reasons many of the layoff announcements are HEAVILY scripted. It's possible that the "pre-recorded" message was a teleprompter read or something else that does not allow a lot of back and forth. There are so many causes for legal action these days the announcements in general have to be very bland. Note I forget who it was, but there was a post or short video a while back predicting exactly this…

That’s really not an excuse. Am good manager knows to give a layoff speech without creating legal liability. The liability comes in how they select who they lay off and the actions taken prior to lay off. This is simply laziness.

This is so wrong it's not funny. If you are going to be laying off folks PLEASE check with someone on HR / legal side before taking the above advice.

A ton of liability has been created historically based on what is said at the time of a termination.

I personally don't like managers who say how hard the layoff is for them, the employee does NOT care. Just get to the point "I have some bad news to share...."

If you are smaller, your emp practices insurance carrier would LOVE if you called them prior to laying someone or a few folks off. Almost all offer free support as this is THE area that generates a huge amount of claims.

Re: Carvana laid off 2,500 employees today via a pre-recorded message through zoom

#24

Post by FateOfNations »

elliekelly wrote: post #4

Did they comply with the WARN Act? I wonder how the "single employment site" is applied to remote workers? Perhaps it's one unforeseen "benefit" of working from the office?

Sounds like employers must attribute remote workers to a physical site for WARN Act purposes. The DOL provides the following guidance in that regard:

> Workers who primarily travel, who are outstationed or whose duties involve work outside the employer's primary work sites are considered to be assigned to the single site of employment to which they are assigned in the employer's organizational structure, the home base from which work is assigned, or the home base to which workers report. (https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/eta/warn/glossary.asp?p=Single...)

Re: Carvana laid off 2,500 employees today via a pre-recorded message through zoom

#26

Post by DiggyJohnson »

tempnow987 wrote: post #23
pyuser583 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s really not an excuse. Am good manager knows to give a layoff speech without creating legal liability. The liability comes in how they select who they lay off and the actions taken prior to lay off. This is simply laziness.

This is so wrong it's not funny. If you are going to be laying off folks PLEASE check with someone on HR / legal side before taking the above advice. A ton of liability has been created historically based on what is said at the time of a termination. I personally don't like managers who say how hard the layoff is for them, the employee does NOT care. Just get to the point "I have some bad news to share...." If you ar…

This comment misses the mark. The fact that many of these conversations do generate liability is not the point, the point is that a good manager can - with their own agency - avoid those missteps in their own discussions.

Re: Carvana laid off 2,500 employees today via a pre-recorded message through zoom

#27

Post by nunez »

krnlpnc wrote: post #18

This company is crooked. Bought a car through them and the 7 day “test ownership” process is flawed. It confuses the RMV and insurance companies leaving you on the hook for fees on a car you tested and didn't keep. Plus, their certified preowned is worthless. They dropped a used car off in the same condition as they picked it up from the previous owner, and let me waste time fixing issues under their 90 day warranty.…

counterpoint: we purchased a used Ford Fusion Energi from Carvana via a trade-in. it was seamless and worked way better than my purchases through dealers. they couldn't deliver the car to our house, so we drove to the vending machine to pick it up. one of the carvana employees drove the trade-in and did a light visual inspection to confirm condition and another handed us our new car. we even saw it go down the vending machine chute.

that was four years ago. car's in great shape still even after several tens of thousands of miles.

they paid off the old auto loan within a few weeks. it was straightforward.

only tesla has this experience beat, but it's close. i hope they expand.

Re: Carvana laid off 2,500 employees today via a pre-recorded message through zoom

#28

Post by pyuser583 »

tempnow987 wrote: post #23
pyuser583 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s really not an excuse. Am good manager knows to give a layoff speech without creating legal liability. The liability comes in how they select who they lay off and the actions taken prior to lay off. This is simply laziness.

This is so wrong it's not funny. If you are going to be laying off folks PLEASE check with someone on HR / legal side before taking the above advice. A ton of liability has been created historically based on what is said at the time of a termination. I personally don't like managers who say how hard the layoff is for them, the employee does NOT care. Just get to the point "I have some bad news to share...." If you ar…

“A good manager” knows when to contact legal and insurance to get help.

My point isn’t that managers don’t need assistance. My point is that managers don’t need to send a prerecorded message or read directly from a script.

Having consulted with legal, etc. a good manager can inform an employee of a layoff in a personal way.

Part of effectively laying off employee is minimizing hurt feelings. Some pain is inevitable, but adding to is asking for trouble (and bad PR).

Once someone is let go, they are often asked to give a “departure interview” - for legal reasons it’s best if they participate. If they can check box saying “I have no complaints about the company,” it will help avoid lawsuits.

This involves coordinating with legal, HR, etc.

But it also means an impersonal layoff is a bad idea.

Being afraid of lawsuits is a terrible reason let employees go in an insulting manner.

Edit: individual managers rarely (if ever) do layoffs on their own. it’s always a cross-company effort.

Re: Carvana laid off 2,500 employees today via a pre-recorded message through zoom

#29

Post by tempnow987 »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #26
tempnow987 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so wrong it's not funny. If you are going to be laying off folks PLEASE check with someone on HR / legal side before taking the above advice. A ton of liability has been created historically based on what is said at the time of a termination. I personally don't like managers who say how hard the layoff is for them, the employee does NOT care. Just get to the point "I have some bad news to share...." If you ar…

This comment misses the mark. The fact that many of these conversations do generate liability is not the point, the point is that a good manager can - with their own agency - avoid those missteps in their own discussions.

Let me go point by point.

"A good manager knows to give a layoff speech without creating legal liability."

No, this is not true. Many good managers, even nice managers can mess this up. It is not always obvious. Being a good manager is different than (sometimes somewhat arbitrary) things that generate legal liability.

"The liability comes in how they select who they lay off and the actions taken prior to lay off."

Again, this is totally false. MUCH legal liability is created AT THE POINT OF LAYOFF/TERMINATION. I happen to see this over and over. It's weird / scary to hear folks here deny this so brazenly. If you deal with wrongful termination cases a common first source of dispute will center around what was said / claimed at termination both too the employee or employees affected AND to others about the termination. Sure, you can get into statistics around groups and how selected etc, but practically if you can show the lies / inconsistencies in that good managers explanation for layoff provided right there (and there WILL be inconsistencies if they go on for a long time trying to justify / avoid hurt feelings etc) you can "skip to the good part $$$". I'll note that some of the biggest issues comes from nice to very nice managers, they often are sloppier with employee files, sloppier with boundaries and more. They are often liked - so the cases can be a bit of a bummer.

My point stands, some companies have a relatively scripted layoff for these larger layoffs that has gone through legal and other reviews. They don't always allow for a lot of back and forth discussion. Not all of course.

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