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The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

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Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#21

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

famil wrote: post #6
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #3

I wish more people would talk about the Switchblade loitering munitions (kamikaze) drones. We've already had western made drones on the battlefield for decades, this is nothing new, just much cheaper than what the west makes while doing the same job equally good. But the man portable kamikaze drones are the real game changer. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G9xLyNfPzQ [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv8Flu53…

Artillery with spotters accomplished the same task.

Except you can't survey an area with a an artillery warhead.

Sure, you can use your spotters to scout ahead, but why put them in danger of an ambush and have them get killed by a sniper or hidden machinegun, when you can survey that area from a safe distance, and take out the sniper/machine gun if you see one?

This is not meant to replace artillery battalions and scouts, but to complement them.

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#22

Post by openasocket »

robonerd wrote: post #2

> Several news sources have reported that a single TB2 drone can be purchased for a million dollars, but Bayraktar, while not giving a precise figure, told me that it costs more. In any event, single-unit figures are misleading; TB2s are sold as a “platform,” along with portable command stations and communications equipment. In 2019, Ukraine bought a fleet of at least six TB2s for a reported sixty-nine million dollar…

You should take a look at the switchblade. The switchblade 300 model has the equivalent of a 40mm grenade as a warhead, 2.7kg weight, endurance of 10 minutes and a range of around 10km all puts it well in that lower end range. Couldn't find any pricing data, but I imagine more COTS approaches could come out pretty cheap.

I'm actually surprised we've got man-portable loitering munitions like the switchblade in use before the widespread adoption of guided mortar rounds. I'd have to imagine it's more cost effective (in terms of kilograms of high explosive on target per dollar) to make some GPS-guided or laser-guided mortars, and either use ground troops or a small UAV to provide targeting data.

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#23

Post by ISL »

emteycz wrote: post #9
georgeg23 wrote: post #7

There were protests at SpaceX when it was revealed the Turksat 5B satellite would command and control these TB2 drones, extending their range from operator line-of-sight to near global. Elon decided to go ahead with the launch. At some point we need to start calling SpaceX a defense company.

Is a trucking company a defense company if they ship something for the military? Or the same with air transport?

If they can precisely deliver ~22 tons of material from Florida to anywhere in the globe in ~20-50 minutes, arriving at perhaps Mach 5, one should tend to regard SpaceX as at least weapons-capable.

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#24

Post by 01100011 »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #14
melling wrote: post #4

I’m a little surprised that drones in Ukraine haven’t been discussed widely on HN. Ukraine doesn’t have the air force, pilots are expensive and take a lot of time of to train Here are a few interesting stories that I saw over the past couple of months https://www.reuters.com/world/us-rapidly-developed-ghost-dro... https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-technology-bu... https://www.popsci.com/aviation/black-ha…

Ukraine absolutely has an airforce. According to a recent CNN article, "In early March, about two weeks into the war, the defense official said Ukraine has 56 fighter aircraft, which composed about 80% of its fixed-wing fighters" https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/20/politics/ukraine-aircraft-spa...

The UkAF literally bombed Snake Island the other day. They definitely have an air force.

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#26

Post by atlasunshrugged »

01100011 wrote: post #18
georgeg23 wrote: post #7

There were protests at SpaceX when it was revealed the Turksat 5B satellite would command and control these TB2 drones, extending their range from operator line-of-sight to near global. Elon decided to go ahead with the launch. At some point we need to start calling SpaceX a defense company.

I would venture a guess that nearly every SiValley darling supports the military-industrial complex in some fashion. The military-industrial complex started SiValley, after all. If you don't think there's a military application for AI, self-driving whatevers, logistics innovations, or even social media you are uninformed or willfully ignorant.

I think they probably don't, if only because government contracting is an absolutely massive pain and having been on both sides (early at a YC co and have worked in local and federal gov) I know that the gov side considers it an issue that they don't have a close enough relationship to tech startups. This was the whole rationale for launching DIU.mil, Afwerx, sofwerx, NavalX, etc. and championing OTAs which helped shorten the procurement process so they could get smaller companies interested

edit: spelling error

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#27

Post by melling »

famil wrote: post #6
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #3

I wish more people would talk about the Switchblade loitering munitions (kamikaze) drones. We've already had western made drones on the battlefield for decades, this is nothing new, just much cheaper than what the west makes while doing the same job equally good. But the man portable kamikaze drones are the real game changer. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G9xLyNfPzQ [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv8Flu53…

Artillery with spotters accomplished the same task.

I’ve heard varying numbers about the range of the artillery. Somewhere between 15 and 45 miles. Whatever the range, hundreds of drones covering the country could allow for extreme precision.

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#28

Post by belter »

georgeg23 wrote: post #7

There were protests at SpaceX when it was revealed the Turksat 5B satellite would command and control these TB2 drones, extending their range from operator line-of-sight to near global. Elon decided to go ahead with the launch. At some point we need to start calling SpaceX a defense company.

They are being treated like that already.

"Russian space chief Dmitry Rogozin apparently threatens Elon Musk"

https://www.space.com/russian-space-chief-rogozin-threatens-...

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#29

Post by abc_lisper »

georgeg23 wrote: post #7

There were protests at SpaceX when it was revealed the Turksat 5B satellite would command and control these TB2 drones, extending their range from operator line-of-sight to near global. Elon decided to go ahead with the launch. At some point we need to start calling SpaceX a defense company.

Well, space x is a commodity service. If not them, someone will be happy to accept Turkish Lira.

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#30

Post by georgeg23 »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #10
georgeg23 wrote: post #7

There were protests at SpaceX when it was revealed the Turksat 5B satellite would command and control these TB2 drones, extending their range from operator line-of-sight to near global. Elon decided to go ahead with the launch. At some point we need to start calling SpaceX a defense company.

Do people not consider SpaceX a defense company? At the very least I thought people always considered it dual-use

SpaceX tries not to highlight their military work but it is a majority of their business, even with "commercial" Starlink.

A more direct offensive buildup is happening with their government Starlink satellites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#Military_capabilities

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