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'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

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Re: 'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

#21

Post by shakna »

LigmaYC wrote: post #20
shakna wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst it may not strictly be fraud, another common usage of the word 'scam', is 'to deprive of by deceit'. If it's unethical, then it's likely misleading - a form of deceit. You don't necessarily need to meet some legal line for it to be a scam or not. It just needs to be misleading, and capable of causing harm.

But it's not misleading or deceitful.

If it's not misleading, then it wouldn't be impacting "impressionable kids". They're misled to believe that there won't be a negative consequence.

Re: 'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

#23

Post by LigmaYC »

shakna wrote: post #21
LigmaYC wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's not misleading or deceitful.

If it's not misleading, then it wouldn't be impacting "impressionable kids". They're misled to believe that there won't be a negative consequence.

The marketing exists outside of the "buy now, pay later" scheme. "Buy now, pay later" is not a scam.

Re: 'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

#24

Post by shakna »

LigmaYC wrote: post #23
shakna wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's not misleading, then it wouldn't be impacting "impressionable kids". They're misled to believe that there won't be a negative consequence.

The marketing exists outside of the "buy now, pay later" scheme. "Buy now, pay later" is not a scam.

The very phrasing, "buy now, pay later" is predicated upon the implication that it provides a benefit without a negative.

Re: 'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

#25

Post by raxxorraxor »

secretsatan wrote: post #22

Hasn't the economy for the last twenty years been mostly funded by consumer debt? With rising housing prices and stagnant wages, this how trickle up happened

Microsoft Edge seems to be introducing the same feature. I really though their browser won't become trashy this time. How naive of me.

Re: 'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

#26

Post by baisq »

shakna wrote: post #18
LigmaYC wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still not a scam, although I agree that it's not ethical to push this on impressionable kids who would probably choose to go in debt for some new clothes.

Whilst it may not strictly be fraud, another common usage of the word 'scam', is 'to deprive of by deceit'. If it's unethical, then it's likely misleading - a form of deceit. You don't necessarily need to meet some legal line for it to be a scam or not. It just needs to be misleading, and capable of causing harm.

If you sign a contract and then can't abide by the terms of the contract, you haven't been scammed.

Re: 'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

#27

Post by shakna »

baisq wrote: post #26
shakna wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst it may not strictly be fraud, another common usage of the word 'scam', is 'to deprive of by deceit'. If it's unethical, then it's likely misleading - a form of deceit. You don't necessarily need to meet some legal line for it to be a scam or not. It just needs to be misleading, and capable of causing harm.

If you sign a contract and then can't abide by the terms of the contract, you haven't been scammed.

This is specifically not the case - loan sharks are frequently punished for creating contracts that are not reasonable, and cannot be upheld by law as it violates consumer protections. One of which is that contracts are required to be reasonably understood by all participating parties.

Re: 'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

#28

Post by spoonjim »

It's things like this that make me believe that open democracies like the US are doomed to be outcompeted by countries run like China/Russia/Singapore (some work better than others). Buy Now Pay Later for consumer goods is obviously bad. An effective government should be able to just say "it's gone" because it's bad. But in the US there would have to be a law passed, which would be essentially impossible, and even if it was, it would be extremely hard to define the boundaries.

Re: 'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

#29

Post by matnewton85 »

shakna wrote: post #27
baisq wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you sign a contract and then can't abide by the terms of the contract, you haven't been scammed.

This is specifically not the case - loan sharks are frequently punished for creating contracts that are not reasonable, and cannot be upheld by law as it violates consumer protections. One of which is that contracts are required to be reasonably understood by all participating parties.

BNPL providers are held to far higher standards than Credit Card, Personal Loan, or Payday Loan companies. I'm not sure I understand the HN addiction to attacking them.

Unlike all the examples above, Afterpay doesn't charge interest, has capped late payment fees, and has a very low debt ceiling. It's the perfect way for younger people to learn how to manage debt.

Re: 'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

#30

Post by matnewton85 »

spoonjim wrote: post #28

It's things like this that make me believe that open democracies like the US are doomed to be outcompeted by countries run like China/Russia/Singapore (some work better than others). Buy Now Pay Later for consumer goods is obviously bad. An effective government should be able to just say "it's gone" because it's bad. But in the US there would have to be a law passed, which would be essentially impossible, and even if…

I'll quote my comment elsewhere:

"BNPL providers are held to far higher standards than Credit Card, Personal Loan, or Payday Loan companies. I'm not sure I understand the HN addiction to attacking them.

Unlike all the examples above, Afterpay doesn't charge interest, has capped late payment fees, and has a very low debt ceiling. It's the perfect way for younger people to learn how to manage debt."

I should have mentioned that their late payment fees are (very) low.

If you want to get rid of BNPL, you'd have to get rid of literally all forms of debt - BNPL is far and away the most consumer-friendly form of debt that I know of.

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