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Lufthansa’s European Union Strasbourg “shuttle”

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21–30 of 107 posts

Re: Lufthansa’s European Union Strasbourg “shuttle”

#21
post #2

Don't blame Lufthansa, blame the EU institutions and the French government for creating this bizarre nomadism of EU parliamentarians.

It makes my blood boil to think these frequent flyer politicians are the same people demanding action against climate change.

Action against climate change is urgently needed, so please don’t get angry at anybody trying to bring it about.

But there is a definite problem with a demand for personal action, it is both ineffective and usually hypocritical like in the way you suggested.

We absolutely need to demand that all companies and institutions get to carbon neutral or negative status in the products or services they offer.

Every individual can do their part if they want but that’s mostly to feel good, any real progress can only come from the goods/service providers fixing their offers (and that might need all sorts of legislation and incentives to get going, whatever it takes).

Re: Lufthansa’s European Union Strasbourg “shuttle”

#22
post #10

All reasonable until we slide over the custom plane config with extra business class... I hope thats not a literal, we moved the seats for the aristocrats type of flight.

In most European airlines short haul business class is just economy seats with the middle blocked off and slightly better food. This means they can dynamically adjust the size of business class on a per flight basis. So "a huge business class cabin" is misleading here.

You're directly saying that business class seats on these flights take 150% more space than economy class. I think you're trying to argue that it's not actually as comfortable as business class, but the objectionable thing about business class is not that people are more comfortable, it's the wasted space. And the wasted space seems equivalent.

I'm not looking for asceticism here, my hope is to minimize pollution. Of course, a bus would probably allow 200%-300% the space for less pollution and similar travel time.

Re: Lufthansa’s European Union Strasbourg “shuttle”

#23

This flight seems very slow. I’ve just compared it to some short haul flights locally - 1hr 10 mins gets me 650km. The flight in the article takes 55 minutes to go 178km. Short flights will have proportionally more time taxing etc, but this alone wouldn’t appear to explain it.

Did you compare to a local flight within the EU?

Rules about on-timed-ness and passenger compensation for delays mean that airlines now add buffers to their flight times, so most of the times it's "Wahey, we're early!", when they do experience delays they end up landing at the advertised landing time, saving them from those compensation payments.

Re: Lufthansa’s European Union Strasbourg “shuttle”

#24
It looks like there is a rail option between Brussels and Strasbourg which is just under 4 hours[1]. That's four hours where you can work the entire time. With the boarding, flight time and travel time to and from the airport what is the actual time savings here 1 hour? And if you could work the whole time on a train it sounds like a non-issue since this schedule seems to factor in two of the 4 days as travel days. Also why Frankfurt? I realize Frankfurt is an airhub but why would this be a convenient location?

[1] https://www.rome2rio.com/map/Brussels/Strasbourg#r/Train/s/0

Re: Lufthansa’s European Union Strasbourg “shuttle”

#25

This flight seems very slow. I’ve just compared it to some short haul flights locally - 1hr 10 mins gets me 650km. The flight in the article takes 55 minutes to go 178km. Short flights will have proportionally more time taxing etc, but this alone wouldn’t appear to explain it.

This will be the block time; gate-to-gate. It's exactly the same time that United blocks for e.g. the LAX-SAN flight, which is actually ever so slightly shorter.

Re: Lufthansa’s European Union Strasbourg “shuttle”

#26
post #2

Don't blame Lufthansa, blame the EU institutions and the French government for creating this bizarre nomadism of EU parliamentarians.

It makes my blood boil to think these frequent flyer politicians are the same people demanding action against climate change.

I just really don't get this. It's "gotcha" thinking and "if they don't live perfect austerie lifestyles they cannot change climate policies".

Leave out that High Ranking government officials travel with security, press, aides, etc. Yes it's wasteful, but it's likely the safest, fastest and easiest method to gather decision makers. It's such the long tail of carbon output on the climate emergency.

Additionally, these ministers _should_ be representative (Yes, I am aware that is abstracted in the EU). It doesn't matter who they are personally, they are representing their constituents.

Do I wish that each official would show up by bicycle, sailboat, carbon neutral balloon, train, etc? Indeed I do - and the more whimsical the better. Because it would be theater, but theater is an important part of governance. Having the ministers sacrifice sends a message.

But much more important is what they vote for, what they advocate, what policies they affect - as that is what will move the needle on a better or worse world.

But the real reason I might wish they take the bus is that it just provides this fodder for doing nothing. For other blowhards to point and use this as just another excuse to twiddle our thumbs until the extreme crisis arrives.

Until Al Gore personally delivers organically grown sustainable vegetables to every human on the planet, let's not change industrial policies, taxation, energy plans or researching funding. Let's concentrate on the theater and hypocrisy first, and leave the attainable, sustainable long term profitable policy changes for our grandchildren (fingers crossed there is still a democratic institution around as the world's greatest migration and refugee crisis encircles the planet).

Btw - Google tells me blood boils around the same as water - 100 C. I don't quite see those temperatures occurring, but it will sure feel like it on, say the Indian Subcontinent. Good thing no one lives there!

Re: Lufthansa’s European Union Strasbourg “shuttle”

#28

It looks like there is a rail option between Brussels and Strasbourg which is just under 4 hours[1]. That's four hours where you can work the entire time. With the boarding, flight time and travel time to and from the airport what is the actual time savings here 1 hour? And if you could work the whole time on a train it sounds like a non-issue since this schedule seems to factor in two of the 4 days as travel days. A…

Because frequent flier points get you nicer things than frequent rail points

Re: Lufthansa’s European Union Strasbourg “shuttle”

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes my blood boil to think these frequent flyer politicians are the same people demanding action against climate change.

Action against climate change is urgently needed, so please don’t get angry at anybody trying to bring it about. But there is a definite problem with a demand for personal action, it is both ineffective and usually hypocritical like in the way you suggested. We absolutely need to demand that all companies and institutions get to carbon neutral or negative status in the products or services they offer. Every individua…

I agree with this, but that's what makes this hypocrisy so particularly galling. These politicians are in the unique position to write legislation (or at least influence legislation) that could prevent shit like this, like requiring a longer minimum flight distance, or prohibiting schedules like this where one leg is empty.

Totally agree, appealing to personal action (beyond voting really) is largely a "feel good exercise", but that's not the case for politicians in their official capacity.

Re: Lufthansa’s European Union Strasbourg “shuttle”

#30

It seems EU politicians believe in climate change, until they have to catch a bus for a couple of hours… BTW, I am a EU citizen worried about climate change and tired of recycling at home to sometimes see this kind of hypocrisy of some politicians.

Air transport account for less than 4% of the 51 b tons of CO2 we send every year. These politicians aren’t going to make any difference. We could ask them to be role models, but with what finality? Again air transport is not the most urgent problem. I understand this is a topic that can be used to raise awareness, but the most useful thing these politicians could do is to rethink the way (EU) businesses are leading China and India to use coal for energy. Why no one proposes to handle this topic, I do not understand. And if someone would handle it, then it would be time to use your next vote wisely.
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