MenuetOS • Hacker News Board

Re: MenuetOS

#21

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Sat, May 07, 2022, 3:45 AM UTC

nick__m wrote: post #19

The reported audio latency, in the release note, is incredible: 05.05.2022 1.42.20 Below millisecond audio latency (intelhda,audio.asm) - 0.083 msec @ 192 khz, 24 bit (playback) - 0.667 msec @ 48 khz, 16 bit (record)

Actually, it really isn't.

The numbers are not for through latency (-> audio interface -> cpu -> audio interface ->)

Instead they are for "half-duplex" latency (-> audio interface -> cpu OR cpu -> audio interface ->).

The 48kHz number represents a buffer size of 32 samples, which is entirely possible with Linux and macOS. The note also does not indicate how h/w specific these numbers are: there can be many h/w level issues with very low latency numbers that can't be solved by the OS (a classic example is a wifi chipset or video interface hogging the PCI bus for too long). On the "right" h/w, 32 samples for input latency is not really that remarkable.

What would be remarkable is if MenuetOS can get this performance from arbitrary intel hardware.

Re: MenuetOS

#22

Post by dang » Sat, May 07, 2022, 4:36 AM UTC

Menuet – A pre-emptive, real-time and multiprocessor OS written in assembly - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15427848 - Oct 2017 (71 comments)

MenuetOS 1.0 – 1.5 MB OS written entirely in assembly [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9595507 - May 2015 (24 comments)

MenuetOS, an operating system written in assembly, hits 1.0 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9549808 - May 2015 (2 comments)

MenuetOS 0.85C released: an OS written entirely in 32/64 bit assembly - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6309696 - Sept 2013 (15 comments)

MenuetOS - An OS written entirely in assembly - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1494999 - July 2010 (26 comments)

MenuetOS: an OS that fits on a floppy, written entirely in assembly, has GUI - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1477868 - July 2010 (8 comments)

MenuetOS: Written in Assembly, fits on a floppy, has GUI - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=776381 - Aug 2009 (45 comments)

Re: MenuetOS

#23

Post by userbinator » Sat, May 07, 2022, 4:43 AM UTC

kingcharles wrote: post #16

indigodaddy wrote: post #11

Not really any current processors in the tested hardware list on the site. Would we expect it to work on current Intel/AMD architectures?

I would expect it would boot and work fine. Drivers is where most hobby OSes fall down. Your sound card might not work. Or your USB chipset etc. And hobby OSes like this often do a lot of things in software that are available in hardware, which ruins their performance.

It has drivers for Intel HD Audio, which has been a standard for over a decade now, and of course USB 1.x and 2.x (EHCI). No USB 3 (XHCI) however.

Re: MenuetOS

#24

Post by peterburkimsher » Sat, May 07, 2022, 4:47 AM UTC

The licence doesn't make sense to me.

"decompilation prohibited" - but I thought it's written in assembly?

Which means it's not compiled?

Re: MenuetOS

#25

Post by userbinator » Sat, May 07, 2022, 4:49 AM UTC

peterburkimsher wrote: post #24

The licence doesn't make sense to me. "decompilation prohibited" - but I thought it's written in assembly? Which means it's not compiled?

Probably standard legal copy. Most if not all proprietary EULAs have something like that. More interestingly, they're invalidated by the laws that permit RE in many countries.

...and on a somewhat related tangent, look at how many appliances have a "do not open/no user-serviceable parts inside" warning.

Re: MenuetOS

#26

Post by idiocrat » Sat, May 07, 2022, 4:51 AM UTC

Would be great to have an image in WASM v86 emulator

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31270543

https://github.com/copy/v86

https://copy.sh/v86/

Re: MenuetOS

#27

Post by racingmars » Sat, May 07, 2022, 5:12 AM UTC

peterburkimsher wrote: post #24

The licence doesn't make sense to me. "decompilation prohibited" - but I thought it's written in assembly? Which means it's not compiled?

A purist might prefer to say that it needs to be "assembled" and that "disassembly" is prohibited; but I don't think many people these days would quibble that the assembler -> machine code process isn't "compiling".

Assembly language is still a textual, human-friendly language where you can give memory locations symbolic names, you use mnemonics for the different machine instructions, many assemblers have various forms of macro support, etc. That all gets "assembled" or "compiled" into the machine code.

Re: MenuetOS

#28

Post by cmeacham98 » Sat, May 07, 2022, 5:43 AM UTC

The author seems to be violating the GPL with Menuet64? Menuet64 is pretty clearly a derivative work of Menuet32, which is GPL. However, Menuet64 is released under a non-free license.

Originally I believed the author may be the sole author of Menuet32, and thus could relicense to whatever they wanted. However, the release notes (https://www.menuetos.net/relnotes.htm) credit many other authors with their contributions.

Re: MenuetOS

#29

Post by yjftsjthsd-h » Sat, May 07, 2022, 5:52 AM UTC

cmeacham98 wrote: post #28

The author seems to be violating the GPL with Menuet64? Menuet64 is pretty clearly a derivative work of Menuet32, which is GPL. However, Menuet64 is released under a non-free license. Originally I believed the author may be the sole author of Menuet32, and thus could relicense to whatever they wanted. However, the release notes ( https://www.menuetos.net/relnotes.htm ) credit many other authors with their contributio…

Any chance they required copyright assignment / CLA?

Re: MenuetOS

#30

Post by jotm » Sat, May 07, 2022, 6:15 AM UTC

When I first stumbled upon it in the very early 00's people were hyped about it fitting on a floppy (the "save" icon :P). Pretty amazing even today.