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24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

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Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#21

Post by MartinMond »

count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

It's very easy. All countries (except Somalia) regulate their markets. For example in the US if there are more than 500 investors in your company you are required to disclose certain information (I read about that regarding Facebook: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/01/03/facebook-and-the-500-...)

In the EU companies are required to disclose data about individuals to those individuals.

In both cases what happened was that policymakers tried to work against a (potential) market failure they (fore)saw.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#22

Post by runaway »

cwe wrote: post #7

Man I want a copy of my report. Considering they're supposedly all about eliminating privacy, shouldn't they want to make all this accessible?

Is the "Download a copy of your Facebook data." link under Account Settings not the data you want? It looked complete to me.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#23

Post by ckinniburgh »

There are a few comments here questioning why it's really important to actually delete data. This is a serious issue for a few different reasons. If I believe that I've deleted something, then there should be no way for anyone to retrieve the information -- I no longer have to worry about security breaches at Facebook (internally or externally), Government warrants, or Facebook accidentally reinstating the information.

As for the idea that Facebook is to big to effectively delete information, that's unacceptable. If you're that big and you can't figure out a way of routinely deleting data then you need to find a way of collecting more data or making your data easier to delete, or not giving the user the 'delete' option. There are a number of alternate verbs which describe the process they are going through, none of which are as clear or commonly understood as 'delete', but which are more accurate. 'Hide' and 'make data invisible' come to mind.

I don't have as much of a problem with the saving of messages which others will also read, but on deleting a Facebook account, this could be handled more gracefully if the user wishes. This is a more difficult problem to solve, which would require Facebook itself to store messages with under the covers public key cryptography which sounds like the type of thing they wouldn't do.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#24

Post by AlexMuir »

count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

You have to look beyond the law to what its purpose is - to prevent companies from exploiting your personal information, and to force them to tell you what data they hold. Facebook are exploiting your browser history, without telling you. And are refusing to even own up to it.

I don't believe that 99% of Facebook users would tick a box that said 'Please record every webpage I visit and store it for your own future use. I do not want access to, nor the right to remove, this data.' Voluntary or not, there's a right to at least see the data that anyone holds on you. Note that you don't have the right to remove data.

This is EXACTLY why data protection laws are there. At the time they were enacted it was largely credit reference agencies, public bodies and direct marketing businesses which were in the spotlight. Had they been written today they would be aimed firmly at Facebook, Google and Apple.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#25

Post by lukasb »

The "excessive processing of data" claim, if valid, would seem to make any social networking service a non-starter:

"Facebook is hosting enormous amounts of personal data and it is processing all data for its own purposes. It seems Facebook is a prime example of illegal 'excessive processing'."

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#26

Post by Tangurena »

count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

Those "completely legal purposes" are only "completely legal" in the US. In the US, the owners of the computer own the data about yourself [1]. In Europe, the data protection acts go the opposite: you own the data about yourself. Furthermore, in Europe, data collection about people has to fall under certain legally sanctioned reasons [2].

Notes: 1 - this can cause surprises when companies go bankrupt and the bankruptcy courts allow the sale of the data (about you) to proceed without your knowledge or consent. It is very rare for you to be notified (such as in the current Borders bankruptcy), or the privacy policies of the dearly departed company to be honored by the courts. 2 - Just because you are willing to give the data to me does not necessarily make it legal.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#27

Post by chopsueyar »

count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

facebook-is-building-shadow-profiles-of-non-users

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/10/18/1429223/facebook-is-b...

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#28

Post by VladRussian »

"So many people applied for their own CDs that Facebook had to send out an email indicating it was unable to comply with the requirement that it provide the information within a 40 day period."

Has Facebook considered using benefits of modern technology and delivering the requested info electronically by, for example, setting up a web site where users could access/browse/download the requested info and may be even let some other users, like their friends, to access the info as well?

:)

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#29

Post by nordsieck »

estel wrote: post #13
twodayslate wrote: post #8

If you don't like them storing your data, then don't go on the site. They won't have it if you don't give it to them.

One might still wish to benefit from some of the undoubtedly useful aspects of Facebook without needlessly surrendering various rights to their data as enshrined in European law.

One might wish to eat one's cake and have it too. Not all wishes are reasonable.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#30

Post by bbq »

count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

"What is it about this completely voluntary relationship that is so inherently evil?"

I'm not going to argue it's inherently evil but,

You are right that the service is completely voluntary. However, the opportunity cost associated with not having a Facebook account has been rising by virtue of the network effect and 3rd party services requiring a Facebook account to access functionality.

The fear is: as (if) Facebook becomes more and more a part of society, the cost of not having a Facebook account becomes high enough to make it practically compulsory to have a Facebook account. And if at this point Facebook acts as it does now, well then it's time to start worrying.

Picking up a hoe and tilling a field is completely voluntary, so why did slaves choose to do so? Because not doing so was too costly.

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