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Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

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Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#21

Post by colechristensen »

bko wrote: post #16
PeterisP wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antitrust rules apply for abuse of dominant market power (which Google certainly has) even if theoretical alternatives exist. It does not matter that it's not literally a monopoly, as that is not the legal bar that needs to be passed for Google to be limited in what they can and can't do.

Bandcamp is using their own billing system, bypassing Google's cut. Every app could do this and cut Google out all together. An app could just let you download the app, pay some amount when you're in the app which would unlock the functionality. I don't think its unreasonable for Google to have a problem with this. They want to get the reach of the app store, and make money off it, without paying a cut to the host li…

That Google’s cut of payments is very high which points to market position abuse

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#22

Post by IshKebab »

anonymousab wrote: post #12
fabianhjr wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Android it is already the case, I have installed both F-Droid and Huawei's AppGallery in an otherwise stock android. (And prefer to get as much as possible from F-Droid) Apple on the other hand has a war against "evil" sideloading. :P

> At least in Android it is already the case There are roadblocks and deficiencies though, a major one being that sideloaded app stores cannot automatically update their applications, making them permanently inferior and crippled compared to Google's offering.

They're actually fixing that finally (I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with Epic's lawsuits...)

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#23

Post by kotaKat »

So... Sweeney wasn't happy with 30%, and now he's not happy with a sweetheart 10% deal?

Pull the app and pull a Fortnite at this point and make people sideload it. I'm too tired of watching this fight over and over again, especially now that they're in the position of actually having a special deal that was given to them (even if it was pre-Epic).

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#24

Post by amelius »

bko wrote: post #16
PeterisP wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antitrust rules apply for abuse of dominant market power (which Google certainly has) even if theoretical alternatives exist. It does not matter that it's not literally a monopoly, as that is not the legal bar that needs to be passed for Google to be limited in what they can and can't do.

Bandcamp is using their own billing system, bypassing Google's cut. Every app could do this and cut Google out all together. An app could just let you download the app, pay some amount when you're in the app which would unlock the functionality. I don't think its unreasonable for Google to have a problem with this. They want to get the reach of the app store, and make money off it, without paying a cut to the host li…

In the 80s and 90s you could buy software running on Windows, where the vendor of the software didn't pay anything to Microsoft; in fact, I'm sure Microsoft was happy with them supporting and increasing the strength of their platform.

Why does this have to change now? Why does the platform need a cut?

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#25

Post by chucky_z »

echelon wrote: post #8
passivate wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far he has lost a ton of cash on lawyer fees, M&A costs, etc. And EPIC now has to individually manage the acquired companies, make sure they're not competing against each other in the same market, etc, etc. I don't think this type of "spending current money to save future money" works. I don't care which company is doing it, but someone needs to break the App Store toll-booth. Apple/Google/Anyone else trying to li…

> And EPIC now has to individually manage the acquired companies, make sure they're not competing against each other Tim Sweeney is buying creator marketplaces . The Github in each market: 3D (sketchup/artstation), 2D (artstation), music (bandcamp), etc. It's the Microsoft play, but for creatives. He's trying to leapfrog the gaming industry and build a content creation engine that encompasses Hollywood, marketing, ar…

The thing that sucks for me is that while I fundamentally agree with everything Tim is doing, he has got to get some better PR because I am so tired of this. I am tired of Tim Sweeney and Epic this multi billion dollar company going “boohoo I’m so bullied,” like, shut up and just do the thing without trying to smear anyone and everyone who isn’t yourself.

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#26

Post by bobviolier »

amelius wrote: post #24
bko wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bandcamp is using their own billing system, bypassing Google's cut. Every app could do this and cut Google out all together. An app could just let you download the app, pay some amount when you're in the app which would unlock the functionality. I don't think its unreasonable for Google to have a problem with this. They want to get the reach of the app store, and make money off it, without paying a cut to the host li…

In the 80s and 90s you could buy software running on Windows, where the vendor of the software didn't pay anything to Microsoft; in fact, I'm sure Microsoft was happy with them supporting and increasing the strength of their platform. Why does this have to change now? Why does the platform need a cut?

Because back then you paid a lot of money for Windows and they also sold you on Office and the likes. Google's business model with android is exactly this, give the OS for cheap but earn money on the apps.

Not saying 10 or 30 is the correct amount. It's just different now.

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#28

Post by cma »

warning26 wrote: post #6

While I generally agree with Epic's positions, it seems like a bit of a stretch here, considering that Android allows both sideloading and alternative app stores. Unlike on iOS, there's nothing on Android stopping Bandcamp from releasing a standalone sideloadable app with any payment system they desire.

At least in the past Android wouldn't allow security updates without having the user take a bunch of steps each time. Users couldn't just add a trusted authority permanently. Google also allegedly colluded with phone maker storefronts to keep them from working out deals with Epic.

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#29

Post by [deleted] »

warning26 wrote: post #6

While I generally agree with Epic's positions, it seems like a bit of a stretch here, considering that Android allows both sideloading and alternative app stores. Unlike on iOS, there's nothing on Android stopping Bandcamp from releasing a standalone sideloadable app with any payment system they desire.

[deleted]

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#30

Post by riversflow »

valdiorn wrote: post #3
ecf wrote: post #2

My cynical opinion is that it feels Tim Sweeney is purchasing companies in hopes he finds the “right” one that that causes enough public outrage to get his way in regards to App Store cuts.

Good. It should cause outrage.

The only outrage I feel is that Tim Sweeney is using the compensation of starving artists, the main demographic on Bandcamp as I understand it, to try and make himself and EPIC richer or more relatively powerful. I don't give two hoots about "breaking up the App Store Model" and I doubt many/most musicians do either. I personally feel that 30% isn't even outrageous considering the value proposition.

Relatively rich/privileged software developers making their problem (App Stores wanting a 30% cut) the musicians' problem isn't noble, it's evil.

Edit: The way I see it, Tim Sweeney/EPIC is responsible for breaking the status quo that allowed bandcamp’s niche to operate the way they did, which seems a reasonable assumption. That acquisition turned the userbase into a pawn in the App store battle.

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