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Serving at the Pleasure of the King

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Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#21

Post by Vivtek »

troels wrote: post #10
Vivtek wrote: post #6

1. Windows has always done this. Occasionally people complain; usually they don't. Honestly, I normally consider it a good thing - the Windows functionality is usually bland and relatively feature-free, but works perfectly. There was a time when TCP/IP support was a purchased add-on, after all. I think we all agree that's better to have built in from the get-go and consistent on every aged uncle's machine we're asked…

Microsoft, as evil as they may be, have always had a rather open eco system. Even when Windows was at its prime, you didn't have to get permission to develop or install applications on the platform.

True - I was responding to his assertion midway that if Windows had preempted a popular app, people would scream. It's just not true.

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#22

Post by Vivtek »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #8
Vivtek wrote: post #6

1. Windows has always done this. Occasionally people complain; usually they don't. Honestly, I normally consider it a good thing - the Windows functionality is usually bland and relatively feature-free, but works perfectly. There was a time when TCP/IP support was a purchased add-on, after all. I think we all agree that's better to have built in from the get-go and consistent on every aged uncle's machine we're asked…

I disagree with point number 2. From Apple's perspective, it's deleting temporary storage (after all, they're called Caches and tmp. You wouldn't store anything important on /tmp on your desktop, would you?) The "correct" place to put user data on iOS 5+ is any place that syncs with iCloud. That's the crux on this issue: iOS 5 is Apple's assertion that App Store users are their customers, not the app developer's cust…

Ah, I see - well, chalk that up to my having very little knowledge about the iOS ecosystem. I think my larger point still stands, that Apple's arrogant assertion of ownership of everything is going to bite them; arguably this is just telling everybody where they have to store their data. With Apple.

And honestly, if /tmp were the only filesystem I were allowed to touch, then yeah, I'd try to do something with it. That's kinda screwed up.

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#24

Post by VMG »

gbog wrote: post #16
programminggeek wrote: post #7

He's right and certainly more levelheaded about these kinds of issues than most, but what most don't realize is that many of the software platforms we love have had worse policies for years. Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, and Sega all have/had extremely rigorous review process that was even worse than Apple's if you want to be on their game platform. Phone companies had all these build processes if you wanted to write Ja…

> Phone companies had all these build processes Well, yes, and that's why we had crappy phones for years before iPhone and Android arrived, as noted by Jeff Atwood. I think it shows again that, not unlike the first PCs and their open slots for third-party cards, openness is the right move. Many people here seem to renounce to this, mostly because Apple's walled garden is currently at a pinnacle, but in my opinion it…

If you really didn't care about karma, you wouldn't have the need to mention it.

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#25

Post by sjs »

What a long winded, and hyperbolic, story of doom.

Marco needs to get over his fears[1] and store the offline data in Documents. It is user generated and is absolutely not transient nor re-downloadable given that a core feature of Instapaper is offline reading.

Apple will get a deluge of bug reports and questions from all app devs that make apps that need to cache content for offline use - but not back it up or store it in iCloud - and will rectify the situation in some way. (I don't think Instapaper is in that camp but that's kind of beside the point.)

I know that most people hold Apple to a higher standard than many other companies but let's not forget Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." This is merely an oversight. Apple is never this hostile to the user experience, and the current guidelines make for a positively horrid user experience. It will be rectified. Is there a short-bets website? I'll make that bet any day.

[1] I think he was correct not to take chances in getting the first iOS 5 version out, but I hope that the minute it was "Processing for App Store" he had a build ready for submission that stores content in Documents to feel out the review team's reaction to it.

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#26

Post by ciudilo »

dsr_ wrote: post #2

Even ordinary users are beginning to understand this. My sister was upset at Amazon because the Kindle app on her iPod would not let her buy books directly. After she found out that Apple was demanding a 30% cut of those sales, she changed her mind. Now she's unhappy with Apple. I understand the impulse to look at however many millions of IOS devices and to immediately want to get into that market, but the long tail…

30% cut only applies to subscriptions so in this case it is Amazon's choice to sell books on their website and not from app directly.

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#27

Post by gbog »

VMG wrote: post #24
gbog wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Phone companies had all these build processes Well, yes, and that's why we had crappy phones for years before iPhone and Android arrived, as noted by Jeff Atwood. I think it shows again that, not unlike the first PCs and their open slots for third-party cards, openness is the right move. Many people here seem to renounce to this, mostly because Apple's walled garden is currently at a pinnacle, but in my opinion it…

If you really didn't care about karma, you wouldn't have the need to mention it.

I don't care about karma. You are free to not believe me, I don't care about that either.

However, I care a lot about HN, and the possibility to have reasonable discussions here. I am not the only one to have sensed the impact of a the Apple lover crowd trying to bury down other thoughts or any slight criticism. Gosh, even the respected and respectable Fred Wilson did notice this issue on his blog (avc.com).

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#28

Post by gbog »

raganwald wrote: post #18
gbog wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Phone companies had all these build processes Well, yes, and that's why we had crappy phones for years before iPhone and Android arrived, as noted by Jeff Atwood. I think it shows again that, not unlike the first PCs and their open slots for third-party cards, openness is the right move. Many people here seem to renounce to this, mostly because Apple's walled garden is currently at a pinnacle, but in my opinion it…

Your comment would read better without the argumentative side-excursion in the second-last paragraph. You make this great point, then instead of resting on it, you distract me from thinking about what you're trying to say and ask me to start thinking about whether everyone who down votes you is an Apple lover. Wy make me work to re-read your comment to remind myself what you actually came here to say?

You are right, I should have split it in two probably.

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#29

Post by frou_dh »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #5

This is one of the reasons that I hope Metro apps crash and burn - if the only way to get hold of them is through the MS store, with all the same issues that the Apple store has, then I just don't want anything to do with them. I know that the Android equivalent has problems (piracy, for instance), but I'd rather have that than something completely locked down.

I can't imagine how MS would save face if Metro crashed and burned. Seems like it would be tantamount to checking out of the consumer market.

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#30

Post by cstross »

If Microsoft added a feature to Windows that duplicated a popular application's functionality, developers would be screaming bloody murder and rioting in the, er, blogs and web forums

Utter rot.

This used to happen all the time in the 1980s and 1990s, before the DoJ anti trust lawsuit really got rolling.

It was most obvious in office apps (ever wonder where the third-party spelling checkers and grammar checkers went? Or the standalone mailmerge applications? Microsoft added their functionality to Word and killed an entire add-on market at a stroke each time they did so), but a load of that stuff happened in Windows too (the graphical shell that became an OS in its own right). The most flagrant late example was web browsing; the most recent one I can think of (not being a Windows user) was their antivirus/malware add-in.

(Honestly ... young 'uns these days ... wanders away mumbling into beard and waving walking stick in the air.)

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