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Le Corbusier's project Plan Voisin – a radical urban design for Paris from 1925

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Re: Le Corbusier's project Plan Voisin – a radical urban design for Paris from 1925

#21

Post by beecafe »

swayvil wrote: post #15
DocTomoe wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turns out that people who dislike brutalist living silos are often also the same people who think we have a housing crisis. You can't have everyone live in Bath unless you demolish it and put Pruitt-Igoe 2.0 onto it. And as you've correctly pointed out: what then would be the attraction of any desirable place?

The problem is too many people. The question is, what horrible dystopian method are we gonna use for those who insist on breeding like rats? Forced sterilization? Containment ghettos? Euthanasia squads?... Yes, scary. But so are megablocks.

You should take the first step and kill yourself. Then we can talk about what others should do.

Re: Le Corbusier's project Plan Voisin – a radical urban design for Paris from 1925

#22

Post by swayvil »

beecafe wrote: post #21
swayvil wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is too many people. The question is, what horrible dystopian method are we gonna use for those who insist on breeding like rats? Forced sterilization? Containment ghettos? Euthanasia squads?... Yes, scary. But so are megablocks.

You should take the first step and kill yourself. Then we can talk about what others should do.

The first step is to practice a little self-restraint with the baby-making, obviously.

Re: Le Corbusier's project Plan Voisin – a radical urban design for Paris from 1925

#23

Post by DocTomoe »

orthoxerox wrote: post #20
DocTomoe wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turns out that people who dislike brutalist living silos are often also the same people who think we have a housing crisis. You can't have everyone live in Bath unless you demolish it and put Pruitt-Igoe 2.0 onto it. And as you've correctly pointed out: what then would be the attraction of any desirable place?

Why not build more Baths next to the old one instead?

The Chinese did that. They ended up with still-overcrowded megacities and completely empty "new towns", which often featured fake, "beautifully" old architecture. It turns out that people don't just want affordable housing or nice surroundings, they also want pre-existing culture, something banlieus often lack.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under-occupied_developments_in...

Re: Le Corbusier's project Plan Voisin – a radical urban design for Paris from 1925

#24

Post by hikingsimulator »

swayvil wrote: post #15
DocTomoe wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turns out that people who dislike brutalist living silos are often also the same people who think we have a housing crisis. You can't have everyone live in Bath unless you demolish it and put Pruitt-Igoe 2.0 onto it. And as you've correctly pointed out: what then would be the attraction of any desirable place?

The problem is too many people. The question is, what horrible dystopian method are we gonna use for those who insist on breeding like rats? Forced sterilization? Containment ghettos? Euthanasia squads?... Yes, scary. But so are megablocks.

Bravo, you'll make Malthus and eugenics peddlers proud...

Re: Le Corbusier's project Plan Voisin – a radical urban design for Paris from 1925

#25

Post by rich_sasha »

It should probably be pointed out that Paris has a history of "knocking it all down" to make space for the New. Haussman did that. Notre Dame de Paris Cathedral, one of the most iconic sacral buildings of the world (?) sits on the rubble of its Christian predecessors (as well as an ancient pagan temple, oh well, zeitgeist).

The difference was that Le Corbusier's stuff is, as most of this thread attests, ghastly, maybe except some Platonic space. The earlier rebuilds worked out, mostly because the esthetics stood the test of time, which Le Corbusier's ideas didn't.

By contrast, after the Great Fire of London in 1666, it was proposed to rebuild the city on a grand, modern design, but in the end that was turned out, and the city was rebuilt much as it was before (except with greater fire safety regulation). This explains why even to this day, City of London, now the main business/finance district, has such a weird layout, with tiny backstreets and anachronistic street names.

Re: Le Corbusier's project Plan Voisin – a radical urban design for Paris from 1925

#26

Post by swayvil »

hikingsimulator wrote: post #24
swayvil wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is too many people. The question is, what horrible dystopian method are we gonna use for those who insist on breeding like rats? Forced sterilization? Containment ghettos? Euthanasia squads?... Yes, scary. But so are megablocks.

Bravo, you'll make Malthus and eugenics peddlers proud...

Then offer a better solution.

Because humans stacked 1000 per acre emitting rivers of sewage is pretty bad too. If it wasn't so normal it would be hellish.

Re: Le Corbusier's project Plan Voisin – a radical urban design for Paris from 1925

#27

Post by [deleted] »

DocTomoe wrote: post #11
richliss wrote: post #2

As someone who grew up in a city that did this, it was a terrible idea then and remains so. Town planners who like brutalism and everything modern are insane. Just look at Birmingham, England - they knocked down beautiful buildings to put up brutalist eyesores to then knock down brutalist eyesores and replace them with a different type of modern architecture that will look awful in 20 years. There's a reason that peo…

Turns out that people who dislike brutalist living silos are often also the same people who think we have a housing crisis. You can't have everyone live in Bath unless you demolish it and put Pruitt-Igoe 2.0 onto it. And as you've correctly pointed out: what then would be the attraction of any desirable place?

[deleted]

Re: Le Corbusier's project Plan Voisin – a radical urban design for Paris from 1925

#28

Post by burlesona »

orthoxerox wrote: post #20
DocTomoe wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turns out that people who dislike brutalist living silos are often also the same people who think we have a housing crisis. You can't have everyone live in Bath unless you demolish it and put Pruitt-Igoe 2.0 onto it. And as you've correctly pointed out: what then would be the attraction of any desirable place?

Why not build more Baths next to the old one instead?

I don’t know about building codes in Britain, but in almost all of the US it would be illegal to build a carbon copy of the beloved older cities we have, because huge roads, parking lots, and setbacks are all mandatory.

Re: Le Corbusier's project Plan Voisin – a radical urban design for Paris from 1925

#29

Post by Oarch »

api wrote: post #4
richliss wrote: post #2

As someone who grew up in a city that did this, it was a terrible idea then and remains so. Town planners who like brutalism and everything modern are insane. Just look at Birmingham, England - they knocked down beautiful buildings to put up brutalist eyesores to then knock down brutalist eyesores and replace them with a different type of modern architecture that will look awful in 20 years. There's a reason that peo…

High modernists are like the somewhat narcissistic recluse programmer who thinks everything is crap. They shut themselves in and rewrite everything in their own superior paradigm without bothering to look at any real world use case or ask anyone anything. Then they're surprised that nobody uses what they built.

As a (software) developer and (building) architect I like this analogy a lot.
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