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The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

warontherocks.com

21–30 of 282 posts

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#21

The truly obsolete weapons platform is the $1.2 trillion manned F-35 program. A multi-role fighter that is too expensive to fly in this new combat space and cannot survive the multitude of anti-air missiles. The drone air war is a numbers game and unmanned fighters are both cheaper and have better operational specs.

Yep and useless in the north, where the actual closest borders with Russia are.

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#22
post #2

On that topic: why Russian tanks are so vulnerable to these missiles and explode spectacularly [1]. Basically the canon auto-loads shells, and the shell storage is not in a different compartment than the turret. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2022/04/01/why-do...

Most of the tanks always store a dozen of rounds in the turret for faster reloads.

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#23
post #4

Something I've been thinking about is that with the emergence of weapons like the NLAW and Javelin, the Secret Service probably will have to rethink the security of the US president.

IDF Trophy or similar systems work… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)

Trophy and similar weapons work by sending a cloud shard of metal shards in the direction of the target. Given that a presidential convoy will often be in the presence of large amounts of civilians, using active defense system may mean shredding a couple dozen voters (possibly on live television). I can't imagine many politicians being very happy about that.

I think DIY weapons would be the more dangerous threat btw. A sharpened stick on one of those racing drones could rest on top of (say) a small shack until the target comes by, then strike extremely quickly.

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#24
post #22
post #2

On that topic: why Russian tanks are so vulnerable to these missiles and explode spectacularly [1]. Basically the canon auto-loads shells, and the shell storage is not in a different compartment than the turret. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2022/04/01/why-do...

Most of the tanks always store a dozen of rounds in the turret for faster reloads.

The American Bradley stores rounds in a separate armored compartment behind the loader. If the compartment gets hit and the rounds cook off, the blast is redirected out the top of the tank away from the crew compartment which makes the vehicle much more survivable.

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#25

Quoted post unavailable.

Unlike in Russia, there is no singular "media" in the west.

There are "western medias", plural, and you have the luxury of choosing your bias.

There are plenty of idiots in the west who will sell you re-furbished Russian propaganda, if that's what you want.

(Is CNN stupid? Yes, it is, it's the same crap hysterical entertainment-news it has always been, mostly laughable to non-Americans and Americans alike. But there's plenty to choose from if you don't like that)

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#26
post #6

Perun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUyAPQEb01Q Chieftain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI7T650RTT8 Bernard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPth_xqBXGY Extreme summary, blame me if I missed something obviously important - unsupported tanks will die to infantry or artillery and have done so since shortly after the inception of the tank. Tanks are actually pretty cheap compared to replacing a human, it costs quite…

I think people vastly underestimate the importance of infantry support. A single soldier with an ATGM can take out a tank, but a single soldier with a gun can take out that single soldier and their ATGM.

It's easy to forget that reality isn't a third-person shooter. When you're sitting in a steel box with an engine in the back and a cannon on the top, situational awareness will inevitably suffer to some degree, and no amount of cameras will completely offset that.

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#27

The truly obsolete weapons platform is the $1.2 trillion manned F-35 program. A multi-role fighter that is too expensive to fly in this new combat space and cannot survive the multitude of anti-air missiles. The drone air war is a numbers game and unmanned fighters are both cheaper and have better operational specs.

Yep and useless in the north, where the actual closest borders with Russia are.

Haha don't tell me it can't fly in the cold or something.

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#28
post #18

Quoted post unavailable.

There are plenty of independent folks doing great work analyzing (and in many cases geolocating) photos of equipment losses. Oryx is great: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-docum... Basically yes: this war has been a disaster for Russian armor.

No post body was provided.

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#29
>> The Russian Army has shown that it is not competent in combined arms fire and maneuver.

Doctrine and training are paramount, together with command and control that's what enabled the early German successes in WW1. And in the case of France a ton of luck.

The article asks the right question: is the role of the tank still needed? A Javelin neutralizes a tank, under the right conditions, it doesn't replace it.

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#30

The truly obsolete weapons platform is the $1.2 trillion manned F-35 program. A multi-role fighter that is too expensive to fly in this new combat space and cannot survive the multitude of anti-air missiles. The drone air war is a numbers game and unmanned fighters are both cheaper and have better operational specs.

Are there any air superiority combat drones operational yet? I won't argue that it seems likely that manned dogfights are going to die eventually, but that moment also seems at least a decade away. Until then a F-35 with long range missiles seems to be one of the more lethal things in the air today, even if it is rather expensive. NATO has like 20x the defense budget compared to Russia though, so it's fine not to have the cheapest weapons available.
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