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‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

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Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#21

Post by jxf »

logicalmonster wrote: post #8

This is one of those things that sounds really good on the surface, and hopefully it is so, but I'm always wary of unintended consequences when it comes to legislation. Are there any loopholes or bad behavior this might enable? Just something to keep in mind and consider, but on the surface I'd have to say that this does sound pretty good.

> Are there any loopholes or bad behavior this might enable?

Yes; if you're a company that doesn't like Click to Cancel, and your company's Pennsylvania business is small relative to your total business, the logical choice is simply to stop serving Pennsylvania citizens.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#22

Post by LegitShady »

QuikAccount wrote: post #4

Fully in favor of this. I recently had to cancel a subscription that had no "cancel subscription" button and instead forced you to contact customer service so they could try to sell you on discounts and etc. No, just let me cancel and get on with my day. Unfortunately, it seems health clubs(and I assume gyms?) are exempt from this when they are like 80% of the problem.

I've had issues with gyms and also a cable internet provider where the employees say they've processed your cancellation but I found later that for some reason it hadn't worked and I was still subscribed.

A cable provider sent me a bill for $300 of equipment I had returned three months earlier and I was only lucky I kept the receipt from returning the equipment that I could prove I had done it. Since the items had been scanned into their systems on return I could only assume malice or complete incompetence.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#23

Post by LegitShady »

Victerius wrote: post #13
QuikAccount wrote: post #4

Fully in favor of this. I recently had to cancel a subscription that had no "cancel subscription" button and instead forced you to contact customer service so they could try to sell you on discounts and etc. No, just let me cancel and get on with my day. Unfortunately, it seems health clubs(and I assume gyms?) are exempt from this when they are like 80% of the problem.

During the pandemic, I built a home gym in a spare space at home for a couple hundred dollars. I'm never paying for a gym again.

during the pandemic a couple hundred dollars wouldn't even buy me enough weights for a bench press, let alone the rest of the necessary equipment.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#24

Post by bloodguard »

Needs to be nationwide and have real teeth in it. Before I subscribe to anything I check out the cancel procedures. If I can't cancel online or have to "chat" with a retention specialist 20 times before I can finally be shut of a company (looking at you SirusXM) I'm not subscribing.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#25

Post by josephcsible »

zja wrote: post #19

Not to excuse companies that make you jump through hoops to unsubscribe, but is there any reason you can't just call your credit card/bank and cut off transactions to a company that's giving you a hard time? I've heard horror stories about people trying to cancel gym memberships, and wondered why they don't just stop paying, and let the gym figure it out.

Because then they send you to collections and your credit score suffers.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#26

Post by LegitShady »

jxf wrote: post #21
logicalmonster wrote: post #8

This is one of those things that sounds really good on the surface, and hopefully it is so, but I'm always wary of unintended consequences when it comes to legislation. Are there any loopholes or bad behavior this might enable? Just something to keep in mind and consider, but on the surface I'd have to say that this does sound pretty good.

> Are there any loopholes or bad behavior this might enable? Yes; if you're a company that doesn't like Click to Cancel, and your company's Pennsylvania business is small relative to your total business, the logical choice is simply to stop serving Pennsylvania citizens.

Removing unethical companies from your territory benefits people immensely. This is an unintended benefit, not a negative result.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#27

Post by irjustin »

zja wrote: post #19

Not to excuse companies that make you jump through hoops to unsubscribe, but is there any reason you can't just call your credit card/bank and cut off transactions to a company that's giving you a hard time? I've heard horror stories about people trying to cancel gym memberships, and wondered why they don't just stop paying, and let the gym figure it out.

In the US this is implemented on a per card issuer basis (i.e. Citi, Chase) and it's up to the issuer to provide the service, which most of them don't.

The only way to do it is as a chargeback but chargebacks are after the charge and come with a whole mess of pre-requirements as well as if you do it too often your provider will kick you off.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#28

Post by reillyse »

pc86 wrote: post #18
iratewizard wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how gyms subsidize costs. January firsters are often make or break gyms. Mostly due to the fact that leases on those spaces are expensive and the insurance for them is a complete racket (all insurance is a racket, though).

While this is accurate (for "globo-gyms" like Anytime or PF, not gyms that actually having training components and charge $150-250/mo), that doesn't explain why it made its way into legislation. Legislators don't care about business models and let's be honest most of them aren't smart enough to understand it even if they did care.

Obviously someone has bribed the lawmakers for that exemption. Simple.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#29

Post by slvrspoon »

there's already something like this (no surprise) https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/statutes/restore-on...

i'm guessing pretty much only CA enforces it and generally to make $ the way police do from ticketing.

credit cards are the market solution here. they work. virtual cards are even better. more effective and efficient legislation would be to simply enforce processors to accept and not differentiate virtual mastercard / visa / amex cards!

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#30

Post by kijin »

datadata wrote: post #12

The effect of this bill is probably that it will either never be enforced or companies will terminate business in Pennsylvania, at least until more jurisdictions adopt compatible rules. At best companies would only offer these rights for Pennsylvania residents. Local legislation seems incompatible with the economies of scale of internet commerce. I wish that rather than creating laws like this that only govern a tiny…

The state of Pennsylvania governs a much larger population than just a bunch of local jurisdictions acting in unison. Unless you mean entire countries by "local jurisdictions."
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