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Samsung Electronics cultural issues causing disasters in foundry, LSI, DRAM

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Re: Samsung Electronics cultural issues causing disasters in foundry, LSI, DRAM

#21

Post by jason-phillips »

lostlogin wrote: post #19
jason-phillips wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has been clear to us for years that Samsung has baaad internal communication issues... It's clear that Samsung culture prevents people from admitting mistakes... Jesus H. Christ on a fucking hockey stick. I doubt I've ever read such a breathless hit piece with so many unsupported assertions summarily presented as fact. I worked for Samsung Semiconductor for ten years and left as a software engineering manager. N…

Could you tell us how you worked?

Just to clarify, is this with or without Aaron Franklin brisket for lunch?

Re: Samsung Electronics cultural issues causing disasters in foundry, LSI, DRAM

#22

Post by e44858 »

MikusR wrote: post #15
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #7

It has been clear to us for years that Samsung has baaad internal communication issues. When you're at the forefront of technology, you're bound to trip up as bets and explorations don't pan out. Humans being humans, mistakes will happen, but they must be recognized to be corrected and prevented in the future. It's clear that Samsung culture prevents people from admitting mistakes, which of course only leads to more…

>too tight a clearance a the corners in the case for the batteries, causing bending of the internal electrodes, leading to short-circuits That turned out not to be the cause. https://news.samsung.com/global/infographic-galaxy-note7-wha...

The page you linked says this:

> The negative electrode was deflected within the upper-right corner of the battery

Maybe better clearance would have prevented that from causing a short?

Re: Samsung Electronics cultural issues causing disasters in foundry, LSI, DRAM

#23

Post by lostlogin »

jason-phillips wrote: post #21
lostlogin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you tell us how you worked?

Just to clarify, is this with or without Aaron Franklin brisket for lunch?

This has shot right over my head, but as a google suggests the place is well regarded, I’m going to say ‘with’…

Re: Samsung Electronics cultural issues causing disasters in foundry, LSI, DRAM

#24

Post by iron2disulfide »

jason-phillips wrote: post #13
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #7

It has been clear to us for years that Samsung has baaad internal communication issues. When you're at the forefront of technology, you're bound to trip up as bets and explorations don't pan out. Humans being humans, mistakes will happen, but they must be recognized to be corrected and prevented in the future. It's clear that Samsung culture prevents people from admitting mistakes, which of course only leads to more…

> It has been clear to us for years that Samsung has baaad internal communication issues... It's clear that Samsung culture prevents people from admitting mistakes... Jesus H. Christ on a fucking hockey stick. I doubt I've ever read such a breathless hit piece with so many unsupported assertions summarily presented as fact. I worked for Samsung Semiconductor for ten years and left as a software engineering manager. N…

I've worked with Samsung Semiconductor as a partner/customer and it did seem to me from the outside that there was a culture of not admitting mistakes/failings, and poor communication between different parts of the company (i.e. foundry to silicon engineering). Granted, you could say the same thing re: communication about many large companies -- I'm sure the same phenomenon occurs at Intel or IBM (back before they went fabless). Things may have been different on software teams vs. silicon/hardware teams.

Re: Samsung Electronics cultural issues causing disasters in foundry, LSI, DRAM

#25

Post by glowingly »

mardifoufs wrote: post #20
jason-phillips wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has been clear to us for years that Samsung has baaad internal communication issues... It's clear that Samsung culture prevents people from admitting mistakes... Jesus H. Christ on a fucking hockey stick. I doubt I've ever read such a breathless hit piece with so many unsupported assertions summarily presented as fact. I worked for Samsung Semiconductor for ten years and left as a software engineering manager. N…

I agree that the article is very lacking in substance and as you said, a hit piece. Yet there really seem to be a problem with Samsung's chips, especially their SoCs. They have underperformed for years now, and have always been inferior even in the high end (except maybe for the galaxy s6). That's despite repeated performance promises and a complete control over the entire production process (from design to fab to as…

In many ways this is still true of Intel today. Like Samsung, their chips draw more power (even with "Intel 7" supposedly drawing parity to TSMC 7N) and are often slower than their competition's chips.

Maybe it's an IDM mindset issue? It seems the market has moved on to pure play foundries. For example, Nvidia's first fab partner was STMicro, an IDM, and Nvidia noted STMicro was unable to focus on being a fab partner. After that, Nvidia moved onto TSMC, also working with IBM, UMC, and Samsung at later points in time.

Re: Samsung Electronics cultural issues causing disasters in foundry, LSI, DRAM

#26

Post by bob1029 »

pixelatedindex wrote: post #9

The work culture at Samsung being toxic is something I have some familiarity with, as I used to know some folks who were working there. It’s a very top down company and the lower tier folks aren’t necessarily encouraged to question things, but more of a “do as I say”. The legislation aspect is really concerning but not surprising as chaebols have an iron grip on the Korean economy. Tough times for Samsung, but in a l…

I used to work at SAS and can corroborate the "top down" nature of the organization.

"We just need to copy Korea" is not a good narrative if you want to keep high-quality American engineers interested in a long term career path with you.

I lasted barely 3 years before the lack of volition got to me. Went to contract for a video game developer afterwards (huge pay cut) just to clear my mind and reconnect with reality.

Re: Samsung Electronics cultural issues causing disasters in foundry, LSI, DRAM

#27

Post by lizardactivist »

Disasters in foundry, LSI, and DRAM? Is the writer sponsored by the U.S. chip manufacturing sector or other pro-American interests?

What a weird hit-piece filled with assertions that could never be reliably backed up by other than Samsung themselves conducting a massive internal investigation.

Re: Samsung Electronics cultural issues causing disasters in foundry, LSI, DRAM

#28

Post by kurthr »

jason-phillips wrote: post #16
jitl wrote: post #10

Even in the Bay Area, the Samsung culture is extremely top-down and overwork focused. I’ve heard too many stories of whole departments needing to throw everything out and build something totally different at the very end of year-long projects because on an executive’s whims. On the other hand their cafeteria food is supposedly very good (especially if you like Korean and Japanese).

> the Samsung culture is extremely top-down and overwork focused Allow me to add some context. The Samsung culture could be described as militaristic, with accompanying rank and ceremony, therefore I can see how you identified the top-down chain-of-command relationships. [edited]

This (top level story) is a reflection of _SAMSUNG_ (particularly SEC-SLSI) culture. There are certainly elements of Korean culture, but it is for example VERY different from LG culture. I don't understand why there's a reason to jump to 5000 years of history for criticism of a part of a company that's having problems... apparently with truthful internal communication.

I think most people would accept that Intel has/had similar problems based in financial optimization, but that doesn't directly reflect on 5000 years of western culture.

Re: Samsung Electronics cultural issues causing disasters in foundry, LSI, DRAM

#29

Post by lizardactivist »

chevman wrote: post #5

There is a Facebook group with 100k+ members dedicated solely to the poor engineering, design, and fabrication of their refrigerators - [SAMSUNG REFRIGERATOR RECALL U.S.A. NOW] - https://www.facebook.com/groups/1520337151601316/

99% of which most likely don't even own one, and also partake in the other peculiar groups spreading the notion that dirty, foreign brands are dangerous and unreliable.

Re: Samsung Electronics cultural issues causing disasters in foundry, LSI, DRAM

#30

Post by jason-phillips »

mardifoufs wrote: post #20
jason-phillips wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has been clear to us for years that Samsung has baaad internal communication issues... It's clear that Samsung culture prevents people from admitting mistakes... Jesus H. Christ on a fucking hockey stick. I doubt I've ever read such a breathless hit piece with so many unsupported assertions summarily presented as fact. I worked for Samsung Semiconductor for ten years and left as a software engineering manager. N…

I agree that the article is very lacking in substance and as you said, a hit piece. Yet there really seem to be a problem with Samsung's chips, especially their SoCs. They have underperformed for years now, and have always been inferior even in the high end (except maybe for the galaxy s6). That's despite repeated performance promises and a complete control over the entire production process (from design to fab to as…

I was a software engineer and did not work in LSI, so I cannot comment on that in a way which would be most informative, but I will try from a different perspective. An accurate answer would be incredibly complex, obviously.

Samsung, from my perspective, mostly focuses on this year's production and developing next year's model. Yes, there is work done planning for new fabs and global supply chain systems, but 98% of cycles are spent on this year's production and designing next year's model.

Samsung accounts for a huge percentage of South Korea's GDP, about 20%. Therefore, Samsung needs to favor stability over taking risks associated with living at the bleeding-edge of innovation. Samsung always did play the safe game when I worked there (and for good reason when you're babysitting a $20 billion factory with $100 million of product that could be scrapped at any time).

Again, I wasn't in LSI but this is my perception overall having worked there, traveled to Korea and learned Korean culture.

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