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Hello V-Lang

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Re: Hello V-Lang

#21

Post by [deleted] »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #18
lf-non wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite a bit of work has indeed gone into the language, and what has been accomplished is no mean feat, but the myriad open bugs [1] around core features of the compiler do not inspire confidence. It'd be better if the documentation reflected that the language was in an alpha state rather than touting stability guarantees etc. [1] https://github.com/vlang/v/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+lab...

It's definitely not anyone's fault for not taking this seriously. I thought it was a gag and only these comments make me think it might possibly be a real language.

[deleted]

Re: Hello V-Lang

#23

Post by scns »

coldtea wrote: post #17
_andrei_ wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's people that have what it takes to build something like V, and then there's the rest of us, that spend our time ranting online.

And there are also people who have built even harder projects than V, but can still criticize projects with issues and rant with the best of them! The absolute dichotomy being "doers" and "criticizers" is false. Linus could criticize things just fine.

Have seen Linus giving the finger to Nvidia, but not ranting on a forum about a new language.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#24

Post by kgeist »

Last time I checked V-Lang looked amazing on paper but on closer evaluation many of the claimed features were only planned, crashed the compiler on trivial inputs, or simply were half-baked and didn't deliver on the promises (things like syntax errors from the underlying C backend, memory leaks etc. because transpilation was straightforward and lacked proper checks, hence the fast compilation speed). A few months ago I superficially skimmed through their GitHub repo and it left an impression that it's still a toy language with same problems as back in 2020, although with some improvements (but it's just my impression), many ideas being borrowed from Go and Rust. From what I also found odd is that the author is overly fixated on their transpilation speed for some reason (i.e. IIRC citing V -> C translation only, without the C -> binary part), they have a few repos written in V and one of the main selling points there is compilation speed as well - probably at the expense of other features, because they don't do deep analysis (hence C compiler errors on trivial inputs). It struck me as something odd because I find memory safety, thread safety and overall stability more important than a few saved seconds of compilation.

I will be more than happy to learn that I am wrong and the situation has considerably improved, but other than that infamous GitHub issue "The language is not what is promised", I haven't seen a more recent (as of 2022) objective, skeptical analysis of the language by someone from outside their community. Maybe someone has links?

Re: Hello V-Lang

#25

Post by Rochus »

tony-allan wrote: post #10

An interesting language that’s worth a look https://vlang.io/ https://github.com/vlang/awesome-v

It is indeed very astonishing why many people here have such a negative attitude towards this language.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#26

Post by amedvednikov »

kgeist wrote: post #24

Last time I checked V-Lang looked amazing on paper but on closer evaluation many of the claimed features were only planned, crashed the compiler on trivial inputs, or simply were half-baked and didn't deliver on the promises (things like syntax errors from the underlying C backend, memory leaks etc. because transpilation was straightforward and lacked proper checks, hence the fast compilation speed). A few months ago…

> citing V -> C translation only, without the C -> binary part

Not really, here's a benchmark of V compiling itself in 0.3 seconds that includes all steps (including the C -> binary part) and results in the compiler binary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvP6wmcl_Sc

This video is linked on the home page.

> crashed the compiler on trivial inputs

We have thousands of tests, lots of big projects written in V (V itself is 220k loc, Vinix OS, Ved editor, Gitly, vsql etc), and they all work fine, no compiler errors.

Can you give an example of a trivial input resulting in a crash/C error?

The infamous "The language is not what is promised" you referenced has claims like "there's no way V is written in V", and "there's no way to do json serialization without an AST". These things are simply not true.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#27

Post by lawl »

bheadmaster wrote: post #20

Here are the summarized V features for anyone who dislikes salestalk: - small binaries and fast compilation - cross-platform support - cross-compilation - cross-platform drawing library (GDI+/Cocoa Drawing, OpenGL) - native GUI toolkits (V-UI) - value types - auto-free engine that adds necessary free() commands - C transpilation (both ways, allegedly emits human-readable C) - C foreign function interface ("V can call…

i'm pretty sure that half of these features don't work.

Such as the famous "autofree" where everyone doubted it could work and the solution now was.... to drop in boehm-gc.

for anyone unfamiliar with v, take everything on that list with a giant spoon full of salt.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#28

Post by kgeist »

amedvednikov wrote: post #26
kgeist wrote: post #24

Last time I checked V-Lang looked amazing on paper but on closer evaluation many of the claimed features were only planned, crashed the compiler on trivial inputs, or simply were half-baked and didn't deliver on the promises (things like syntax errors from the underlying C backend, memory leaks etc. because transpilation was straightforward and lacked proper checks, hence the fast compilation speed). A few months ago…

> citing V -> C translation only, without the C -> binary part Not really, here's a benchmark of V compiling itself in 0.3 seconds that includes all steps (including the C -> binary part) and results in the compiler binary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvP6wmcl_Sc This video is linked on the home page. > crashed the compiler on trivial inputs We have thousands of tests, lots of big projects written in V (V itself…

As I said, I may be wrong. I think I will try V some day to see it for myself (maybe I'll write an article about my findings). As you are the author of the language, can you comment on what is the state of the auto-free system? How is memory management implemented?

Re: Hello V-Lang

#29

Post by amedvednikov »

lawl wrote: post #27
bheadmaster wrote: post #20

Here are the summarized V features for anyone who dislikes salestalk: - small binaries and fast compilation - cross-platform support - cross-compilation - cross-platform drawing library (GDI+/Cocoa Drawing, OpenGL) - native GUI toolkits (V-UI) - value types - auto-free engine that adds necessary free() commands - C transpilation (both ways, allegedly emits human-readable C) - C foreign function interface ("V can call…

i'm pretty sure that half of these features don't work. Such as the famous "autofree" where everyone doubted it could work and the solution now was.... to drop in boehm-gc. for anyone unfamiliar with v, take everything on that list with a giant spoon full of salt.

autofree demo:

V's compile time memory management demo. Running the Ved editor on an 8 MB file with 0 leaks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmB8ea8uLsM

Re: Hello V-Lang

#30

Post by agumonkey »

Rochus wrote: post #25
tony-allan wrote: post #10

An interesting language that’s worth a look https://vlang.io/ https://github.com/vlang/awesome-v

It is indeed very astonishing why many people here have such a negative attitude towards this language.

Because author kinda twisted terms to make it seems he achieved the impossible. Felt like he did better than rust+ada+haskell, all without using memory and faster than an eyeblink.
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