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3D Software Rendering Technology of 1998's Thief: The Dark Project (2011)

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Re: 3D Software Rendering Technology of 1998's Thief: The Dark Project (2011)

#21

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

smackeyacky wrote: post #6
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're the shadows actually rendered in real time or were they prerendered and baked into the textures along with the environment lighting? Genuinely curious. I could be wrong but, AFAIK, Doom 3 was the first game with real time shadows and dinamic lighting and every game before that employed various tricks that simulated those instead.

The article doesn't make it completely clear but it infers the shadows were not dynamic because it affected the gameplay in that the player needed some certainty about where stealth was effective, and the level designs hinged on that. Great game. Thief and Descent were pretty challenging compared to quake.

>Thief and Descent were pretty challenging compared to quake.

Well, after John Romero left id software in an disgruntled way during the development of Quake, id became creatively bankrupt, and their games were just tech demos for John Carmack's latest cutting edge 3D engine, wrapped in a half-baked "whatever, this is gonna sell" storyline and gameplay.

Re: 3D Software Rendering Technology of 1998's Thief: The Dark Project (2011)

#22

Post by morganvachon »

Lanz wrote: post #13
jccalhoun wrote: post #9

I would love for there to be a good Thief sequel. Dishonored is great but it isn't Thief.

Try The Dark Mod.

Agreed, it even runs on OpenBSD! It's as close as we'll ever get to a spiritual successor to the original two games. Deadly Shadows (the third game) was terrible compared to the first two, and we don't speak of the 2014 reboot.

Re: 3D Software Rendering Technology of 1998's Thief: The Dark Project (2011)

#23

Post by rzzzt »

ovao wrote: post #14
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're the shadows actually rendered in real time or were they prerendered and baked into the textures along with the environment lighting? Genuinely curious. I could be wrong but, AFAIK, Doom 3 was the first game with real time shadows and dinamic lighting and every game before that employed various tricks that simulated those instead.

Doom 3 wasn’t necessarily the first game with fully-dynamic lighting/shadowing, but it was among the first to use what Carmack referred to as “fully-unified lighting”, in that no pre-baked lighting was used. There were some projection light hacks here and there, but generally speaking all lighting in Doom 3 was dynamic. The original Quake used a mix of pre-baked lightmaps and dynamic lights, just like the original Th…

First in shadow volume rendering, maybe? Did anything else make use of this technique at the time?

Re: 3D Software Rendering Technology of 1998's Thief: The Dark Project (2011)

#24

Post by whoopdedo »

exikyut wrote: post #15
brobinson wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First game to use ECS (or an ECS-like system), too, if I recall correctly. DromEd is one of the strangest programs I've used.

Screenshots don't hold a candle to actually using something, but I'm honestly not too dissuaded to disagree with you: https://thief.fandom.com/wiki/DromEd?file=Dromed.png Seems to be downloadable at https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141708 (and have a bit of a niche following) Googling the name also turns up a comprehensive 4-part YouTube video series from 2012-2013 showcasing the UI and how to build a lev…

The story goes that the editor wasn't initially made public because they thought it would be too difficult to use. After some persistent requests, they let a few people have the editor as a trial. Even without any documentation they were able to make new maps from scratch, which convinced Looking Glass. The tools were then included with every release of the games afterwards.

Re: 3D Software Rendering Technology of 1998's Thief: The Dark Project (2011)

#26

Post by badsectoracula »

rzzzt wrote: post #23
ovao wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doom 3 wasn’t necessarily the first game with fully-dynamic lighting/shadowing, but it was among the first to use what Carmack referred to as “fully-unified lighting”, in that no pre-baked lighting was used. There were some projection light hacks here and there, but generally speaking all lighting in Doom 3 was dynamic. The original Quake used a mix of pre-baked lightmaps and dynamic lights, just like the original Th…

First in shadow volume rendering, maybe? Did anything else make use of this technique at the time?

There were several other games that used volumetric shadows before Doom 3, AFAIK Neverwinter Nights and Morrowind are two. Even id's own Quake 3 (enabled by a console command) used it though it was a bit buggy.

Re: 3D Software Rendering Technology of 1998's Thief: The Dark Project (2011)

#28

Post by tannhaeuser »

Thief is one one of my all-time-favs. Surprised to hear it being notable for its tech; for me, it was all about the sneaking and creatively avoiding full-on confrontation.

About ten years or so ago, Drake: Uncharted (plus its sequels) on the kid's PS3 was recommended to me as a worthy game to play. But I found it boring, having to face a fistfight and primitive shooting only after 5 mins into the game, so I didn't bother.

Re: 3D Software Rendering Technology of 1998's Thief: The Dark Project (2011)

#29

Post by corysama »

Garret’s buddies at HandmadeCon gathered a group of devs from different games who all wrote some of the first software rasterization 3D games. The general theme was “We had no idea what we were doing. There were no references!”

https://youtube.com/watch?v=xn76r0JxqNM

Re: 3D Software Rendering Technology of 1998's Thief: The Dark Project (2011)

#30

Post by blunte »

The visuals were excellent, but the gameplay and game design were imo what made the game special.

I played it new. I really felt the sense of tension and attention to detail of being stealthy, and the corresponding consequences of failing to be stealthy.

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