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Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

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Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#21

Post by yywwbbn »

allendoerfer wrote: post #13
darkwater wrote: post #5

Good luck with that, Italy and Italians are one of the most bureaucracy-obsessed country on the planet. You can think you own country has bureaucracy issues? Go check Italy, and it will be for sure worse. I mean, in 2022 AFAIK and still not every salaried person can have a default pre-compiled tax draft that they can just sign on the Internet and get approved. You have to go and compile it one from scratch (I think t…

You are basically describing Germany. I try to put it on first-mover disadvantage to make me feel better: Basically Germany has had a relatively functioning administration for hundreds of years (Italy even for thousands). Compared to something you would design from scratch in 2022 it looks a bit archaic. I celebrate every little step forward.

The US administrative and political system is objectively older and more archaic than the ones in almost every European country (besides Britain, Switzerland and maybe(?) Scandinavian countries). Germany was established in 1949 and Italy is a fairly new country as well.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#22

Post by tluyben2 »

L_226 wrote: post #16
0xfaded wrote: post #3

If I did another startup in Europe, I would incorporate in Delaware and raise US money from the get go. It's cool to see the YC terms borrowed directly, and hopefully that would be a shot across the bows of European investors. But to really give European founders leverage they need access to US valuations and terms. I think semi-philanthropic incubators like these could really help by guiding founders to form US enti…

I am doing this right now, Stripe Atlas Delaware C-corp but operating in Germany. I could have incorporated a GmbH for €25,000 (goes into an account to act as collateral against future liability) - which uses all my savings basically, or a UG for €1 - but then I can't add other shareholders until I pay an additional €25k to convert it to a GmbH. For my startup, which is capital intensive, I have no choice but to use…

London could work depending on your business. Hope you involved an international tax lawyer; there can be a lot of issues with the German taxes in this setup if you did not do this carefully.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#23

Post by wlecometo »

Well the main issue in italy is not lack of funding or lack of talent but rather the amount of taxation companies had to go through and the uncertainty behind a big and complex legal system which makes an average of 8 years for civil processing .

these two things alone and the fact there are better places in europe to make a startup (hint: netherlands, germany, france, czech republic, romania, poland) makes me wonder if they will succeed or is this a way to collect IP rather than helping idea to grow? maybe they saw that this is exactly what most of incubators are doing, in the end lots of startups in Italy were made by university professors making startups out of a research paper from one of their student, so i can see why an incubator could be interested in this.

yes i know, sorry for the negativity i've been there and i experienced this first hand.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#24

Post by darkwater »

bonzini wrote: post #8
darkwater wrote: post #5

Good luck with that, Italy and Italians are one of the most bureaucracy-obsessed country on the planet. You can think you own country has bureaucracy issues? Go check Italy, and it will be for sure worse. I mean, in 2022 AFAIK and still not every salaried person can have a default pre-compiled tax draft that they can just sign on the Internet and get approved. You have to go and compile it one from scratch (I think t…

> still not every salaried person can have a default pre-compiled tax draft that they can just sign on the Internet and get approved. You have to go and compile it one from scratch This has changed several years ago. > you had to pay an annual tax to validate your passport Keyword being had . It's gone for like 10 years.

> This has changed several years ago.

AFAIK not yet for everybody

> Keyword being had. It's gone for like 10 years.

I think it's less, but in my last renewal in 2017 I had to pay over 100€ all at once which is ridiculous (but at least less ridiculous than having to put a 10€ physical "marca da bollo" each and every year).

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#25

Post by darkwater »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #19
bonzini wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> still not every salaried person can have a default pre-compiled tax draft that they can just sign on the Internet and get approved. You have to go and compile it one from scratch This has changed several years ago. > you had to pay an annual tax to validate your passport Keyword being had . It's gone for like 10 years.

Yeah like I am not sure, when I was living in London, not being Schengen, at a certain point I got in mind to just go to "Questura" and make my electronic passport so that I could go through the fast automatic gate, I went there, paid the "Bollo", and I explained that I had to depart in a couple of days, and I just got the e-passport the morning I had to depart.. like it was blazing fast, I mean for my experience, ge…

I always had to do several hoops and loops through the consulate to get my 1st and then renew my passport abroad. But maybe we Italians living abroad are a snowflake and an edge case in this regard (like, I still renewed 6 months ago my ID card and it is still made of fucking paper)

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#26

Post by znpy »

0xfaded wrote: post #3

If I did another startup in Europe, I would incorporate in Delaware and raise US money from the get go. It's cool to see the YC terms borrowed directly, and hopefully that would be a shot across the bows of European investors. But to really give European founders leverage they need access to US valuations and terms. I think semi-philanthropic incubators like these could really help by guiding founders to form US enti…

Depending on where you’re doing that and your nationality and fiscal residence, that might be illegal.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#27

Post by darkwater »

yywwbbn wrote: post #21
allendoerfer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are basically describing Germany. I try to put it on first-mover disadvantage to make me feel better: Basically Germany has had a relatively functioning administration for hundreds of years (Italy even for thousands). Compared to something you would design from scratch in 2022 it looks a bit archaic. I celebrate every little step forward.

The US administrative and political system is objectively older and more archaic than the ones in almost every European country (besides Britain, Switzerland and maybe(?) Scandinavian countries). Germany was established in 1949 and Italy is a fairly new country as well.

Italy is a new country but relies on older habits and in general on a more conservative mindset.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#28

Post by lnxg33k1 »

darkwater wrote: post #25
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah like I am not sure, when I was living in London, not being Schengen, at a certain point I got in mind to just go to "Questura" and make my electronic passport so that I could go through the fast automatic gate, I went there, paid the "Bollo", and I explained that I had to depart in a couple of days, and I just got the e-passport the morning I had to depart.. like it was blazing fast, I mean for my experience, ge…

I always had to do several hoops and loops through the consulate to get my 1st and then renew my passport abroad. But maybe we Italians living abroad are a snowflake and an edge case in this regard (like, I still renewed 6 months ago my ID card and it is still made of fucking paper)

Soon after that I got also my e-id, what a bloody win not being watched anymore like a neanderthaler every time I had to show my ID :D (but I lost the PIN) (But then I got the SPID and didn't need the e-ID anymore :D)

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#29

Post by Luc »

znpy wrote: post #26
0xfaded wrote: post #3

If I did another startup in Europe, I would incorporate in Delaware and raise US money from the get go. It's cool to see the YC terms borrowed directly, and hopefully that would be a shot across the bows of European investors. But to really give European founders leverage they need access to US valuations and terms. I think semi-philanthropic incubators like these could really help by guiding founders to form US enti…

Depending on where you’re doing that and your nationality and fiscal residence, that might be illegal.

Surely not? Could you name a specific combination of those 3 factors that make it illegal?

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#30

Post by [deleted] »

darkwater wrote: post #5

Good luck with that, Italy and Italians are one of the most bureaucracy-obsessed country on the planet. You can think you own country has bureaucracy issues? Go check Italy, and it will be for sure worse. I mean, in 2022 AFAIK and still not every salaried person can have a default pre-compiled tax draft that they can just sign on the Internet and get approved. You have to go and compile it one from scratch (I think t…

[deleted]
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