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Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#21

Post by huitzitziltzin »

hedora wrote: post #5
BuckRogers wrote: post #3

I have some family members that work at Amazon, my understanding is that the conditions at Amazon are hard to pin down because some warehouses are run just fine and others are abusive. That said, everyone working a job has a right to a union. Whether there's workplace abuse going on or not. All human endeavors are corrupt, including gov't, business, and occasionally unions. Collective bargaining is something I wish I…

Everyone should have the right to collective bargaining. The US is a closed shop country, which means that, once a union is in place, it has an effective monopoly for the workers that work for one of its companies. If we switched to open shop, then unions would have to compete for membership. Of course, the existing unions are strongly against this. As an end result, everyone I know that's been a union member in the…

> The US is a closed shop country, which means that, once a union is in place, it has an effective monopoly for the workers that work for one of its companies.

This is not correct:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_shop

The US is not a closed shop country.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#22

Post by rossdavidh »

hedora wrote: post #5
BuckRogers wrote: post #3

I have some family members that work at Amazon, my understanding is that the conditions at Amazon are hard to pin down because some warehouses are run just fine and others are abusive. That said, everyone working a job has a right to a union. Whether there's workplace abuse going on or not. All human endeavors are corrupt, including gov't, business, and occasionally unions. Collective bargaining is something I wish I…

Everyone should have the right to collective bargaining. The US is a closed shop country, which means that, once a union is in place, it has an effective monopoly for the workers that work for one of its companies. If we switched to open shop, then unions would have to compete for membership. Of course, the existing unions are strongly against this. As an end result, everyone I know that's been a union member in the…

Well it depends on the state:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law

Like a lot of things about employment, housing, medical insurance, etc. it varies quite a bit between states.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#23

Post by ethbr0 »

amelius wrote: post #9

It's great that people are standing up against the abusive power of big companies. When will Apple (App Store) developers unionize?

Apple developers (assuming you mean app developers) are mostly self or small company employed. Unions exist to mediate the employee-employer interface, not the employer-third party one.

An alliance of employers against a third party is a cartel, which is substantially different legal proposition. (Said without intending the pejorative connotations of the word 'cartel')

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#24

Post by jonny_eh »

amelius wrote: post #9

It's great that people are standing up against the abusive power of big companies. When will Apple (App Store) developers unionize?

> When will Apple developers unionize?

Do you mean developers that Apple employs full-time, or third-party developers that publish on Apple's App Store?

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#25

Post by rossdavidh »

mtgx wrote: post #2

Unions are the most useful when you're dealing with monopolies. Where there is fierce competition in an industry, most workers probably feel that unions are not needed, as they can get a better paying job by switching companies within the same industry whenever they like. So I wonder if the recent rise in union interest is a symptom of the fact that in the U.S. a lot of industries have been monopolized or oligopolize…

Yes, but there is a second requirement for unions (in the US, anyway), which is that they have to have a tight enough labor market to have negotiating leverage. Otherwise, the company just closes the factory/store/warehouse/whatever, and moves it elsewhere. Amazon, in 2022, would appear to satisfy both requirements.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#26

Post by Spivak »

strombofulous wrote: post #20
amelius wrote: post #9

It's great that people are standing up against the abusive power of big companies. When will Apple (App Store) developers unionize?

Why should developers unionize? I love not being in a union. If my company starts dicking me around I'll quit and find another job. Besides, if I do something so bad my boss wants to fire me, fine then I'll go work somewhere where people want me. I don't want to have to bring in my union rep to argue about it since going somewhere else means losing my tenure and taking a 30% pay cut. The only time unions make sense i…

Unionizing makes sense for people who…

* don’t want to have to switch jobs to address grievances

* can’t switch jobs because everywhere is shitty (eg actors guild).

* an industry has a monopoly on some local resource like forest for lumber or coal mines and so you can’t just start or join a competitor.

It’s not really about skilled labor, it’s about mobility and the market forces that prevent it.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#27

Post by coolso »

hn_version_0023 wrote: post #16
gotostatement wrote: post #6

okay this is amazing. but wtf is this sentence? "No union victory is bigger than the first win in the United States at Amazon, which many union leaders regard as an existential threat to labor standards across the economy because it touches so many industries and frequently dominates them."

The NY Times prides itself on its 5th grade reading level.

Trash talk the Times however you see fit and I'll probably back you up on it (they are laughably liberally/"progressive"ly biased, and continuing to run cover for the current administration as best they can despite it not really working as per the polls), their writing standards are, in my opinion, impeccable and a standout among news organizations, but I suppose not everyone can be perfect always.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#28

Post by seibelj »

BuckRogers wrote: post #3

I have some family members that work at Amazon, my understanding is that the conditions at Amazon are hard to pin down because some warehouses are run just fine and others are abusive. That said, everyone working a job has a right to a union. Whether there's workplace abuse going on or not. All human endeavors are corrupt, including gov't, business, and occasionally unions. Collective bargaining is something I wish I…

Should also have the right to work at a company and NOT have to join the union, and negotiate your own conditions / wages independently.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#29

Post by oblio »

strombofulous wrote: post #20
amelius wrote: post #9

It's great that people are standing up against the abusive power of big companies. When will Apple (App Store) developers unionize?

Why should developers unionize? I love not being in a union. If my company starts dicking me around I'll quit and find another job. Besides, if I do something so bad my boss wants to fire me, fine then I'll go work somewhere where people want me. I don't want to have to bring in my union rep to argue about it since going somewhere else means losing my tenure and taking a 30% pay cut. The only time unions make sense i…

You shouldn't be forced to join a union but joining a union should not be an issue for any company.

In practice, creating unions is heavily frowned upon and discouraged through various underhanded means.

That should tell you that companies view unions as enemies, and collective bargaining in general.

And companies for sure don't have your interests in mind. Also for sure you don't have the negotiating power they have.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#30

Post by scoot »

gotostatement wrote: post #6

okay this is amazing. but wtf is this sentence? "No union victory is bigger than the first win in the United States at Amazon, which many union leaders regard as an existential threat to labor standards across the economy because it touches so many industries and frequently dominates them."

What seems to be the problem?
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