Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 348 posts

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#21

Post by HL33tibCe7 »

coldtea wrote: post #17
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think I’ve seen anybody “knocking” scientists looking into whether ivermectin works. In fact, most ivermectin skeptics _welcome_ that. What I have seen is the knocking of people who claim that ivermectin is a wonder drug; or that the government is deliberately holding back ivermectin to prolong the pandemic; or that paxlovid etc. are just “big Pharma ivermectin”. Those people are right to be “knocked”, becaus…

> I don’t think I’ve seen anybody “knocking” scientists looking into whether ivermectin works. (...) What I have seen is the knocking of people who claim that ivermectin is a wonder drug That's because they did both, combined: "knocked down scientists looking into whether ivermectin works" by making them appear as claiming that "ivermectin is a wonder drug". Then they get to gloat that they just knocked down those de…

Who is “they”? Can you point out where scientists researching ivermectin have been knocked? I certainly haven’t seen it in mainstream outlets, and I don’t even recall seeing it in scientific communities skeptical of ivermectin.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#22

Post by edmcnulty101 »

jiggawatts wrote: post #6

Ivermectin works because the first trials were done in developing economies where the average person had a high chance of parasitic infections. The steroids used as a standard front-line treatment for severe COVID decreases the immune response to parasites, allowing them to multiply unchecked. This killed patients indirectly, but dead is dead , and they "checked in" with COVID, not parasite complaints. Ivermectin is…

What you're saying is a theory.

It's a good theory but youre technically spouting misinformation by claiming it's hard fact.

This theory was developed by Scott Alexander from SSC in his ivermectin blog post.

Joe Rogan never claimed anyone should take medical advice from him.

He had Sanjay Gupta and Robert Malone both medical doctors with differing opinions.

This is how the media is supposed to work. It's not supposed to be just the people you agree with(that's propaganda).

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#23

Post by rscho »

jiggawatts wrote: post #6

Ivermectin works because the first trials were done in developing economies where the average person had a high chance of parasitic infections. The steroids used as a standard front-line treatment for severe COVID decreases the immune response to parasites, allowing them to multiply unchecked. This killed patients indirectly, but dead is dead , and they "checked in" with COVID, not parasite complaints. Ivermectin is…

> Nonetheless, Ivermectin is safe drug to take in normal doses, and will help people that are hospitalised with COVID and are given steroids.

In what way will it help in people having no parasite?

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#24

Post by edmcnulty101 »

HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #12
simonh wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to Joe he wasn't giving medical advice, but licensed doctors on his show were.

This sounds reasonable, until you realise that his opinions massively skew which licensed doctors he lets on the show. So effectively you’re ending up with him pushing his opinion anyway. If you cherry-pick your experts enough, you’ll be able to find one that agrees with you, no matter how absurd your position. I’ll also note that much of the time the licensed doctors he invites on aren’t actually in relevant special…

No post body was provided.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#25

Post by HL33tibCe7 »

leereeves wrote: post #15
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds reasonable, until you realise that his opinions massively skew which licensed doctors he lets on the show. So effectively you’re ending up with him pushing his opinion anyway. If you cherry-pick your experts enough, you’ll be able to find one that agrees with you, no matter how absurd your position. I’ll also note that much of the time the licensed doctors he invites on aren’t actually in relevant special…

Serious question: What media doesn't choose their guests to fit their opinions or their political stance? I'd like to watch that one.

The coronavirus experts that the mainstream media platformed are far more representative of the general opinion of the medical and epidemiological community than the experts Joe Rogan platformed.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#26

Post by HL33tibCe7 »

edmcnulty101 wrote: post #24
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds reasonable, until you realise that his opinions massively skew which licensed doctors he lets on the show. So effectively you’re ending up with him pushing his opinion anyway. If you cherry-pick your experts enough, you’ll be able to find one that agrees with you, no matter how absurd your position. I’ll also note that much of the time the licensed doctors he invites on aren’t actually in relevant special…

Quoted post unavailable.

I have never said that he _only_ platforms experts that agree with him. I’m saying the skew is enormous.

So (say) 99% of the relevant scientific and medical community realise ivermectin is bogus and the vaccines work. But he’ll invite on (say) a 75/25 split for/against ivermectin.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#27

Post by evilthrow »

jiggawatts wrote: post #6

Ivermectin works because the first trials were done in developing economies where the average person had a high chance of parasitic infections. The steroids used as a standard front-line treatment for severe COVID decreases the immune response to parasites, allowing them to multiply unchecked. This killed patients indirectly, but dead is dead , and they "checked in" with COVID, not parasite complaints. Ivermectin is…

> This study appears to have been done in Canada, where parasite infection rates in the general population are probably 1% or less. Hence... no demonstrable benefit to using Ivermectin!

"Dr. Mills and his colleagues looked at 1,358 adults who visited one of 12 clinics in the Minas Gerais region of Brazil with Covid-19 symptoms."

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#28

Post by leereeves »

HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #25
leereeves wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: What media doesn't choose their guests to fit their opinions or their political stance? I'd like to watch that one.

The coronavirus experts that the mainstream media platformed are far more representative of the general opinion of the medical and epidemiological community than the experts Joe Rogan platformed.

Yes, as the evidence comes in, it seems probable that the mainstream media got Invermectin right. They've gotten other things wrong.

Whether they ultimately turn out to be right or wrong about any particular topic, the problem occurs much earlier: they choose their position before conclusive evidence is available, often, as in this case, based mostly on politics, then skew their coverage to fit.

I'd prefer to hear the arguments and evidence from an impartial source, not a political position.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#29

Post by rootsudo »

edmcnulty101 wrote: post #22
jiggawatts wrote: post #6

Ivermectin works because the first trials were done in developing economies where the average person had a high chance of parasitic infections. The steroids used as a standard front-line treatment for severe COVID decreases the immune response to parasites, allowing them to multiply unchecked. This killed patients indirectly, but dead is dead , and they "checked in" with COVID, not parasite complaints. Ivermectin is…

What you're saying is a theory. It's a good theory but youre technically spouting misinformation by claiming it's hard fact. This theory was developed by Scott Alexander from SSC in his ivermectin blog post. Joe Rogan never claimed anyone should take medical advice from him. He had Sanjay Gupta and Robert Malone both medical doctors with differing opinions. This is how the media is supposed to work. It's not supposed…

Misinformation seems to be the boogeyman of our time. Something you don't agree with just slap the label "Misinformation!"

"Yes, the evidence suggests it but.." - "MISINFORMATION.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#30

Post by rendall »

evilthrow wrote: post #27
jiggawatts wrote: post #6

Ivermectin works because the first trials were done in developing economies where the average person had a high chance of parasitic infections. The steroids used as a standard front-line treatment for severe COVID decreases the immune response to parasites, allowing them to multiply unchecked. This killed patients indirectly, but dead is dead , and they "checked in" with COVID, not parasite complaints. Ivermectin is…

> This study appears to have been done in Canada, where parasite infection rates in the general population are probably 1% or less. Hence... no demonstrable benefit to using Ivermectin! "Dr. Mills and his colleagues looked at 1,358 adults who visited one of 12 clinics in the Minas Gerais region of Brazil with Covid-19 symptoms."

To close that circle, apparently parasite infection is quite high in Minas Gerais:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4964320/ > Eleven sites were selected for sampling. Cysts of Entamoeba coli were the most frequently found in this study (50%), followed by Hymenolepis diminuta eggs (27.6%), Iodamoeba butschllii cysts (5.6%), Ascaris lumbricoides eggs (5.6%), Taenia species eggs (5.6%) and hookworm eggs (5.6%). The highest positivity rates were found in the samples drawn from the cafeteria's eating table.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30050346/ > Results: A total of 216 slides were analyzed [sampled from public bus seats], of which 86 (39.8%) were positive for at least one intestinal parasite.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29972467/ > The aim of this study was to establish the prevalence of Schistosoma mansoni in indigenous Maxakali villages, evaluating the TF-Test® performance for diagnosis compared to the Kato-Katz technique. Stool samples from 545 individuals were processed by the TF-Test® (1 sample) and Kato-Katz (1 slide). The positivity rate for S. mansoni by Kato-Katz was 45.7%. The rate by the TF-Test® was 33.2%, and 51.9% by the combined parasitological techniques. The amplitude of parasite load was 24 to 4,056 eggs per gram of feces (epg), with a geometric mean of 139 epg.

Post reply on HN