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Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

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Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#21

Post by cies »

Liquid_Fire wrote: post #5
cies wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of this rant I had a look at the company behind w3shools. This is their about page: https://w3schools.sinsixx.com/about/about_refsnes.asp.htm If you want to communicate "stuck in the 90s", take this as your example! The photo of the "Web Masters", the favicon, the W3C-badges, the gif-badge webhosting ad, fixed-width, the CMS400 ad, the bordered boxes around everything. I had a blast.

To be fair, that seems to be a copy of the page from more than 10 years ago (note the "Copyright 1999-2009" in the footer). The current website still seems to be run by the same company but looks much more modern.

You are probably right. I just Google'd for "Refnes Data" (the name I found on the w3schools page) and this was the first hit.

I checked again but did not find a more modern site anywhere. Did you?

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#22

Post by o_m »

cies wrote: post #2

Death to w3schools! When search engines allowed blacklisting domain, w3schools was my first and only pick. It always seems to show up on top for many web tech questions, but the quality is rubbish. MDN is a breath of fresh air in this regard. I expect it will knock w3schools of it's search result throne in the coming years. The end of a era of low quality, ad sponsored (4 ads, just counted) web technology reference.

You can blacklist w3schools by using ublacklist: https://github.com/iorate/ublacklist

There are also lists for blacklisting github and stackoverflow content clone sites.

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#23

Post by archerx »

cies wrote: post #2

Death to w3schools! When search engines allowed blacklisting domain, w3schools was my first and only pick. It always seems to show up on top for many web tech questions, but the quality is rubbish. MDN is a breath of fresh air in this regard. I expect it will knock w3schools of it's search result throne in the coming years. The end of a era of low quality, ad sponsored (4 ads, just counted) web technology reference.

"I don't like something so no one should use it!"

What kind of logic is that? I actually prefer going to w3schools because as a quick reference I find what I'm looking for much faster than MDN. It has interactive examples right at the top so you can get a quick idea on what a function does. I am happy that both exist.

Either you are completely out of touch or you're going to need to show some of the "low quality" examples from w3schools.

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#24

Post by cies »

onion2k wrote: post #7
cies wrote: post #2

Death to w3schools! When search engines allowed blacklisting domain, w3schools was my first and only pick. It always seems to show up on top for many web tech questions, but the quality is rubbish. MDN is a breath of fresh air in this regard. I expect it will knock w3schools of it's search result throne in the coming years. The end of a era of low quality, ad sponsored (4 ads, just counted) web technology reference.

I expect it will knock w3schools of it's search result throne in the coming years. There's no practical incentive for Google to prioritize MDN over w3schools though. Google doesn't seem to rank sites on quality any more. I suspect they rank sites on "ad profitability" instead. Showing users websites that have adverts means users click on more adverts, which Google benefits from (by encouraging that user behavior even…

I did not ask Google to change it, I just hope they will soon loose to MDN (which is currently the second).

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#25

Post by archerx »

Angostura wrote: post #17
cies wrote: post #2

Death to w3schools! When search engines allowed blacklisting domain, w3schools was my first and only pick. It always seems to show up on top for many web tech questions, but the quality is rubbish. MDN is a breath of fresh air in this regard. I expect it will knock w3schools of it's search result throne in the coming years. The end of a era of low quality, ad sponsored (4 ads, just counted) web technology reference.

I was under the impression that the W3Schools content had actually improved quite a bit over the last couple of years. No?

It has and he is talking from a place of total ignorance.

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#26

Post by cies »

archerx wrote: post #23
cies wrote: post #2

Death to w3schools! When search engines allowed blacklisting domain, w3schools was my first and only pick. It always seems to show up on top for many web tech questions, but the quality is rubbish. MDN is a breath of fresh air in this regard. I expect it will knock w3schools of it's search result throne in the coming years. The end of a era of low quality, ad sponsored (4 ads, just counted) web technology reference.

"I don't like something so no one should use it!" What kind of logic is that? I actually prefer going to w3schools because as a quick reference I find what I'm looking for much faster than MDN. It has interactive examples right at the top so you can get a quick idea on what a function does. I am happy that both exist. Either you are completely out of touch or you're going to need to show some of the "low quality" exa…

You do you. I find MDN so much better that I hope they soon push w3schools off their first-hit-throne.

> Either you are completely out of touch or you're going to need to show some of the "low quality" examples from w3schools.

Do you really need me for that? Here are "div" and "table" on both.

https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_div.asp

https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_table.asp

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/di...

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/ta...

To me the difference is enormous (quality of writing, completeness, correct use of words, ads, noise on the page).

But again: see for yourself. Now read back yous comment and see if your "What kind of logic is that?" and "I don't like something so no one should use it!" were reasonable sentences to throw at me.

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#27

Post by franga2000 »

archerx wrote: post #23
cies wrote: post #2

Death to w3schools! When search engines allowed blacklisting domain, w3schools was my first and only pick. It always seems to show up on top for many web tech questions, but the quality is rubbish. MDN is a breath of fresh air in this regard. I expect it will knock w3schools of it's search result throne in the coming years. The end of a era of low quality, ad sponsored (4 ads, just counted) web technology reference.

"I don't like something so no one should use it!" What kind of logic is that? I actually prefer going to w3schools because as a quick reference I find what I'm looking for much faster than MDN. It has interactive examples right at the top so you can get a quick idea on what a function does. I am happy that both exist. Either you are completely out of touch or you're going to need to show some of the "low quality" exa…

1. where did you see that logic? I can't see it in the comment

2. w3schools has surface-level tutorials that teach you the most basic use case of each feature. It's decent for teaching, hence the name. MDN on the other hand is a complete reference - it shows every possible way to use a certain feature in a standardised format. Not as beginner-friendly, but it's what professional web developers need. They are very different sites.

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#28

Post by Yaina »

franga2000 wrote: post #27
archerx wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't like something so no one should use it!" What kind of logic is that? I actually prefer going to w3schools because as a quick reference I find what I'm looking for much faster than MDN. It has interactive examples right at the top so you can get a quick idea on what a function does. I am happy that both exist. Either you are completely out of touch or you're going to need to show some of the "low quality" exa…

1. where did you see that logic? I can't see it in the comment 2. w3schools has surface-level tutorials that teach you the most basic use case of each feature. It's decent for teaching, hence the name. MDN on the other hand is a complete reference - it shows every possible way to use a certain feature in a standardised format. Not as beginner-friendly, but it's what professional web developers need. They are very dif…

MDN also has a bunch of tutorials[1], even for for various frameworks.

I think the major difference is that W3Schools neglects to explain important concepts like what semantic html is and just says: "div is a cool box".

[1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/HTML/Introduc...

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#29

Post by jraph »

jug wrote: post #19
toastal wrote: post #8

The new MDN design looks snazzy but no longer works in NetSurf. I would hope a resource like this was highly accessible, even to browsers without CSS3 support (isn't this why we have @supports?). It's also furthering a trope of themes being a binary toggle; there are more options than just white and gray--how about OLED black to conserve the least about of power (looks better on my screens too).

I agree that pages about web development should themselves not depend on CSS3 support at the renderer because it's a huge step forward from CSS2 and the documentation itself is just simple documents rather than complex layouts. This has the air of web designers not having even considered this aspect and just went with modern web standards as usual. So an issue should maybe be raised about this. As I browse the site,…

Actually one could use the latest on the edge modern web standards for this, but leverage graceful degradation so you still have documents that are both readable and comfortable in a browser supporting less things.

If there is one set of standards that would allow that, it's the Web!

This kind of documents should be perfectly readable in plain HTML without CSS and Javascript;

Maybe MDN itself, directly, could be improved?

Re: Mozilla and Open Web Docs Working Together on MDN

#30

Post by ivanche »

cies wrote: post #3
cies wrote: post #2

Death to w3schools! When search engines allowed blacklisting domain, w3schools was my first and only pick. It always seems to show up on top for many web tech questions, but the quality is rubbish. MDN is a breath of fresh air in this regard. I expect it will knock w3schools of it's search result throne in the coming years. The end of a era of low quality, ad sponsored (4 ads, just counted) web technology reference.

Because of this rant I had a look at the company behind w3shools. This is their about page: https://w3schools.sinsixx.com/about/about_refsnes.asp.htm If you want to communicate "stuck in the 90s", take this as your example! The photo of the "Web Masters", the favicon, the W3C-badges, the gif-badge webhosting ad, fixed-width, the CMS400 ad, the bordered boxes around everything. I had a blast.

Not to defend w3schools but it seems you linked to some very old version of their site. This is the current About page: https://www.w3schools.com/about/default.asp
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