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Have Chinese spies infiltrated American campuses?

newyorker.com

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Re: Have Chinese spies infiltrated American campuses?

#21

Post by temp8964 »

helen___keller wrote: post #19
temp8964 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we were winning the battle". I am not sure who is "we" here and what "winning" means. Yes, there is a perspective that Chinese Americans should not be discriminated because of what the Chinese government is doing and what some of the Chinese Americans are doing. But, please stop kidding ourselves that this is the only perspective of the story. A larger battle does exist is that the authoritarian Chinese government i…

> “we were winning the battle". I am not sure who is "we" here and what "winning" means. We = the west (or USA specifically if you prefer) Winning = attracting and retaining the loyalties of intellectual talent > A larger battle does exist is that the authoritarian Chinese government is exploiting our open society and stealing technology and business secretes This is one chapter in the story. China experienced heavy…

Of course there is a long term perspective of the battle. However, the short term battle also matters. The authoritarian CCP government has being winning the short term battle and this helps them becoming a new superpower, and this is defining the history of the next couple decades.

Re: Have Chinese spies infiltrated American campuses?

#22

Post by zardo »

Jtype wrote: post #16
usednet wrote: post #7

In mere decades the nation will look back at these cases against respectable academics as what they truly are: blatant, nonsensical xenophobia. Academic collaboration is “Chinese ties?” Incredible that these cases are even being sent to trial with 0 evidence of these professors sending any kind of sensitive information to China.

So you don't believe that a country with a long history of stealing technology IP would have spies in the Universities that are doing cutting edge research in those areas?

No post body was provided.

Re: Have Chinese spies infiltrated American campuses?

#23

Post by Dracophoenix »

throw4887643 wrote: post #17
Jtype wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't believe that a country with a long history of stealing technology IP would have spies in the Universities that are doing cutting edge research in those areas?

Japan had “a long history of stealing technology IP” until they didn’t. Then it was South Korea that “a long history of stealing technology IP” until they didn’t. Now it’s China getting blamed. I wonder which country will be next? India?

There have been incidents with Japanese corporations stealing IP:

https://www.nytimes.com/1982/06/23/business/japanese-executi...

Re: Have Chinese spies infiltrated American campuses?

#24

Post by helen___keller »

temp8964 wrote: post #21
helen___keller wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “we were winning the battle". I am not sure who is "we" here and what "winning" means. We = the west (or USA specifically if you prefer) Winning = attracting and retaining the loyalties of intellectual talent > A larger battle does exist is that the authoritarian Chinese government is exploiting our open society and stealing technology and business secretes This is one chapter in the story. China experienced heavy…

Of course there is a long term perspective of the battle. However, the short term battle also matters. The authoritarian CCP government has being winning the short term battle and this helps them becoming a new superpower, and this is defining the history of the next couple decades.

Jailing a bunch of Chinese researchers, and then later dropping charges, is not helping us on that front

If the government wants to prosecute spies and traitors, they shouldn’t cast a wide net and bring in a bunch of innocents too. We’re not supposed to be the side that jails academics on made up charges.

Re: Have Chinese spies infiltrated American campuses?

#25

Post by powerapple »

Jtype wrote: post #16
usednet wrote: post #7

In mere decades the nation will look back at these cases against respectable academics as what they truly are: blatant, nonsensical xenophobia. Academic collaboration is “Chinese ties?” Incredible that these cases are even being sent to trial with 0 evidence of these professors sending any kind of sensitive information to China.

So you don't believe that a country with a long history of stealing technology IP would have spies in the Universities that are doing cutting edge research in those areas?

How many years is a long history? How many years ago the world is under western colonization? To keep the wealth robbed around the world, "legal" is the term they use quite often.

If a developing country needs development, they have to steal something, because it won't be given. As a developing country develop, it will in turn protect its interests. By then it will try to protect its properties (intellectual or whatever it is). I wish most developing countries learn from China, develop quickly, then worry about the legality issue.

Re: Have Chinese spies infiltrated American campuses?

#26

Post by Jtype »

zardo wrote: post #22
Jtype wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't believe that a country with a long history of stealing technology IP would have spies in the Universities that are doing cutting edge research in those areas?

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: Have Chinese spies infiltrated American campuses?

#27

Post by Jtype »

throw4887643 wrote: post #17
Jtype wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't believe that a country with a long history of stealing technology IP would have spies in the Universities that are doing cutting edge research in those areas?

Japan had “a long history of stealing technology IP” until they didn’t. Then it was South Korea that “a long history of stealing technology IP” until they didn’t. Now it’s China getting blamed. I wonder which country will be next? India?

So your argument is that other foreign nationals have been unfairly accused in the past so we shouldn't worry about it happening? Or, is it that other nations, as they developed, spied and stole technology until they didn't need to anymore?

Either way I don't see why we should ignore technology theft.

Re: Have Chinese spies infiltrated American campuses?

#28

Post by Jtype »

powerapple wrote: post #25
Jtype wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't believe that a country with a long history of stealing technology IP would have spies in the Universities that are doing cutting edge research in those areas?

How many years is a long history? How many years ago the world is under western colonization? To keep the wealth robbed around the world, "legal" is the term they use quite often. If a developing country needs development, they have to steal something, because it won't be given. As a developing country develop, it will in turn protect its interests. By then it will try to protect its properties (intellectual or whate…

Whatabboutism is pretty silly here. When was China a US colony? If it's ok for China to steal IP from the US, then why was it wrong for "western" countries in the past to steal from others? If it was wrong for others in the past then why is it justified now? It's either never or always ok. I vote for never myself. But if you think "revenge" stealing is justified against a country that never colonized them, then you are justifying all countries doing it since the beginning of time, because just about every country in the world was conquered and exploited at one time or another.

China is still stealing IP and has been for over 20 years. It's nothing new.

Re: Have Chinese spies infiltrated American campuses?

#29

Post by SkittyDog »

krapp wrote: post #3
luciusdomitius wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Meh. Americans would call Ronald Reagan a Marxist nowadays. Only a nation without any semblance of actual leftism in its body politic could be so confused. Also, you appear to be referring obliquely to Cultural Marxism[0], a right-wing conspiracy theory originally created by Nazis linking Western intellectualism and academia to a secret Communist or Marxist agenda. In the context of the linked article, the Trump-era…

It's helpful to recognize that the family of things commonly called "Marxism" is not a singular school of political economy. Over the 20th century, Karl Marx's original theories and philosophy have constantly evolved, branched off, and swapped DNA with other areas of thought... The easy examples are Leninsm, Trotskyism, Maoism, postmodernism, critical theory, but there a thousands on thousands of identifiable influences that Marxism has left on politics, economics, history, literature, art, game design, language, philosphy, and more. It's hard to imagine many humanities fields without their modern Marxist stripes, so deep runs the inheritance.

This part isn't a conspiracy theory, it's a well documented and well-studied phenomenon. Marx and his intellectual descendants have massively shaped the modern world. And that includes the Western-aligned societies that stridently rejected Communism during the Cold War.

Even the conspiracy theory has evolved over time... the modern versions you hear about on Fox News have changed a bit from the old Nazi stuff.

Re: Have Chinese spies infiltrated American campuses?

#30

Post by amanaplanacanal »

Jtype wrote: post #27
throw4887643 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan had “a long history of stealing technology IP” until they didn’t. Then it was South Korea that “a long history of stealing technology IP” until they didn’t. Now it’s China getting blamed. I wonder which country will be next? India?

So your argument is that other foreign nationals have been unfairly accused in the past so we shouldn't worry about it happening? Or, is it that other nations, as they developed, spied and stole technology until they didn't need to anymore? Either way I don't see why we should ignore technology theft.

The US did it too, until they became top dog. I can't get worked up about it. It's just the way of things.
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