What a coincidence, I’ve just been watching videos about the late Roman Empire. If you’re interested I highly recommend the channel “Thersites the Historian” because he goes through many periods and individual reigns in great detail.
A new history of Byzantium reveals the inner workings of a late antique empire
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Re: A new history of Byzantium reveals the inner workings of a late antique empire
#22Isn’t it wild that the Roman Empire lasted until the 1400s, only to finally fall to the Ottoman Empire? But as the Empire fell, a large set of manuscripts were brought by the great Plethon to Cosimo d’Medici. Marsilio Ficino’s translation of Greek classics into Latin—like the complete works of Plato and the Hermetica—helped kindle the European Renaissance as we know it.
Yes - it’s bizarre to think the Roman Empire almost made it to the Columbus voyages. Columbus would land in the Americas just 39 years after Constantinople fell to the Ottoman Turks… who would themselves make it all the way into the 1900’s and fight in World War I!
Re: A new history of Byzantium reveals the inner workings of a late antique empire
#23If, like me, your knowledge of Constantinople is limited to the They Might Be Giants song, an excellent light-ish read (as much as 100s of years of Byzantine, as in the ridiculously complex, history can be) is Ghost Empire by Richard Fidler https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Empire_(book)
The History of Byzantium podcast is both accessible and well done- https://thehistoryofbyzantium.com/
Re: A new history of Byzantium reveals the inner workings of a late antique empire
#24Isn’t it wild that the Roman Empire lasted until the 1400s, only to finally fall to the Ottoman Empire? But as the Empire fell, a large set of manuscripts were brought by the great Plethon to Cosimo d’Medici. Marsilio Ficino’s translation of Greek classics into Latin—like the complete works of Plato and the Hermetica—helped kindle the European Renaissance as we know it.
> helped kindle the European Renaissance as we know it.
The italian renaissance started in the 14th century for sure and maybe even in 13th century depending on who you ask. Though the exact date can be disputed, nobody disputes the fact that it started long before the fall of the byzantine empire in the mid 15th century.
And the italian renaissance had more to do with direct trade opening up between europe and china/india/etc via the mongol empire ( who had an indirect role in the creation of the ottoman empire ) than anything else. Prior to the mongol empire, they had to no direct trade with either asian centers. Instead they depended on the arabs/persians who acted as middle-men between china/india and europe. It's why we call numbers, Arabic numerals, while the arabs themselves call it Hindu numerals. The arabs got the numbers from india and we got it from the arabs. It's also why europeans used to call china cathay, which is what the arabs called china.
Trade increases wealth. Wealth increase arts/humanities. This is true for italy, india, china, europe, united states, mesopotamia, ancient egypt, etc. It's like how spring rain brings about floral bloom. The italians started getting ridiculously wealthy in the 13th/14th. And like magic, the renaissance was born.
Interesting tidbit, the mongol empire had a significant but indirect part in the "discovery" of the americas by columbus.
Re: A new history of Byzantium reveals the inner workings of a late antique empire
#25What a coincidence, I’ve just been watching videos about the late Roman Empire. If you’re interested I highly recommend the channel “Thersites the Historian” because he goes through many periods and individual reigns in great detail. https://m.youtube.com/channel/UClHybiqQOzR8kUpg5BbnjdQ
When i hear “Thersites” I think of the Iliad. Not a pretty picture.
Re: A new history of Byzantium reveals the inner workings of a late antique empire
#26Isn’t it wild that the Roman Empire lasted until the 1400s, only to finally fall to the Ottoman Empire? But as the Empire fell, a large set of manuscripts were brought by the great Plethon to Cosimo d’Medici. Marsilio Ficino’s translation of Greek classics into Latin—like the complete works of Plato and the Hermetica—helped kindle the European Renaissance as we know it.
Yes - it’s bizarre to think the Roman Empire almost made it to the Columbus voyages. Columbus would land in the Americas just 39 years after Constantinople fell to the Ottoman Turks… who would themselves make it all the way into the 1900’s and fight in World War I!
1492 was the year 7000 in the Byzantine calendar (started with the creation of the world). There was a religious “year 7000” happening in the Eastern world (Moscow, etc) just a Columbus was launching his ships.
Re: A new history of Byzantium reveals the inner workings of a late antique empire
#27What a coincidence, I’ve just been watching videos about the late Roman Empire. If you’re interested I highly recommend the channel “Thersites the Historian” because he goes through many periods and individual reigns in great detail. https://m.youtube.com/channel/UClHybiqQOzR8kUpg5BbnjdQ
When i hear “Thersites” I think of the Iliad. Not a pretty picture.
Not a pretty picture, but not wrong.
Re: A new history of Byzantium reveals the inner workings of a late antique empire
#28Isn’t it wild that the Roman Empire lasted until the 1400s, only to finally fall to the Ottoman Empire? But as the Empire fell, a large set of manuscripts were brought by the great Plethon to Cosimo d’Medici. Marsilio Ficino’s translation of Greek classics into Latin—like the complete works of Plato and the Hermetica—helped kindle the European Renaissance as we know it.
>...the Roman Empire lasted until the 1400s, only to finally fall to the Ottoman Empire
The Byzantine empire was in decline for several centuries, starting with the Islamic expansion. By the time Constantinople fell to the Turks, it had been reduced to a city-state.
Re: A new history of Byzantium reveals the inner workings of a late antique empire
#29Isn’t it wild that the Roman Empire lasted until the 1400s, only to finally fall to the Ottoman Empire? But as the Empire fell, a large set of manuscripts were brought by the great Plethon to Cosimo d’Medici. Marsilio Ficino’s translation of Greek classics into Latin—like the complete works of Plato and the Hermetica—helped kindle the European Renaissance as we know it.
Why was it hard for people in Western Europe to get Greek manuscripts before the fall of the Byzantine Empire? It's not that far from Rome to Athens. Seems like you could just ride down to Brundisium and then get on a boat, get to Athens and ask around. Before 1054 there wasn't an East-Wests schism so the clerics in Greece wouldn't be hostile. Was the political situation really so chaotic and crazy that you couldn't…
No one was particularly interested. People in Constantinople didn’t even know what manuscripts they had! (The major extent Plato manuscripts fir instance are from the 9th-11th centuries, the so called Macedonian renaissance). Westerners became really interested in classical literature after about 1200. Works were preserved, but they often didn’t circulate, to the extent that in the 14th century, Petrarch was able to discover a lost letter of Cicero. As the Turks completed their conquest of the Byzantine empire, Greeks fleeing to west ransacked libraries to find books that would sell in the west, which was mostly Classical Greek, since westerners weren’t interest in Greek tgeologians of the 8th century!
Re: A new history of Byzantium reveals the inner workings of a late antique empire
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why was it hard for people in Western Europe to get Greek manuscripts before the fall of the Byzantine Empire? It's not that far from Rome to Athens. Seems like you could just ride down to Brundisium and then get on a boat, get to Athens and ask around. Before 1054 there wasn't an East-Wests schism so the clerics in Greece wouldn't be hostile. Was the political situation really so chaotic and crazy that you couldn't…
No one was particularly interested. People in Constantinople didn’t even know what manuscripts they had! (The major extent Plato manuscripts fir instance are from the 9th-11th centuries, the so called Macedonian renaissance). Westerners became really interested in classical literature after about 1200. Works were preserved, but they often didn’t circulate, to the extent that in the 14th century, Petrarch was able to…
Homer is an exception to this! There are almost a thousand Homeric manuscripts. There are 7 Plato manuscripts. Aristotle was significantly more popular, with almost 300 manuscripts, almost all from the west, and due to Byzantine originals starting in the 11th century