Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine • Hacker News Board

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#21

Post by empressplay » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 8:07 PM UTC

majormajor wrote: post #9

Mearsheimer also is directly blaming Ukraine here in a way that hardly seems reasonable. "When you’re a country like Ukraine and you live next door to a great power like Russia, you have to pay careful attention to what the Russians think, because if you take a stick and you poke them in the eye, they’re going to retaliate. States in the Western hemisphere understand this full well with regard to the United States."…

I'm Canadian. As a Canadian I am fully aware that my country exists strictly at the whim of the US. If we were to decide to form a military alliance with Russia, hosting Russian troops on our soil, Canada would be invaded by the US in a New York minute. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

It sucks of course but it is what it is. That is all he is saying.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#22

Post by majormajor » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 8:08 PM UTC

secabeen wrote: post #8

I took a number of classes with Mearshiemer in college. He's right on many things, wrong on others. In this case, he's right that NATO expansion at least contributed to the current situation, but I think he's wrong in undervaluing the great increases in peace and prosperity that have been gained in those countries that did join NATO.

Maybe Russia should just join NATO.

This would require Russia to change in a lot of ways from how Putin runs things, but who would that be bad for, really?

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#23

Post by steveylang » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 8:09 PM UTC

secabeen wrote: post #8

I took a number of classes with Mearshiemer in college. He's right on many things, wrong on others. In this case, he's right that NATO expansion at least contributed to the current situation, but I think he's wrong in undervaluing the great increases in peace and prosperity that have been gained in those countries that did join NATO.

His answer always seems to be, "No it's all a big political game, that's the only lens from which we can view this." The politics may be the most important thing from a geopolitical perspective, but they aren't the only thing.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#24

Post by majormajor » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 8:09 PM UTC

empressplay wrote: post #21

majormajor wrote: post #9

Mearsheimer also is directly blaming Ukraine here in a way that hardly seems reasonable. "When you’re a country like Ukraine and you live next door to a great power like Russia, you have to pay careful attention to what the Russians think, because if you take a stick and you poke them in the eye, they’re going to retaliate. States in the Western hemisphere understand this full well with regard to the United States."…

I'm Canadian. As a Canadian I am fully aware that my country exists strictly at the whim of the US. If we were to decide to form a military alliance with Russia, hosting Russian troops on our soil, Canada would be invaded by the US in a New York minute. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. It sucks of course but it is what it is. That is all he is saying.

So if that happened... who would you blame? Russia?

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#25

Post by boomboomsubban » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 8:09 PM UTC

majormajor wrote: post #9

Mearsheimer also is directly blaming Ukraine here in a way that hardly seems reasonable. "When you’re a country like Ukraine and you live next door to a great power like Russia, you have to pay careful attention to what the Russians think, because if you take a stick and you poke them in the eye, they’re going to retaliate. States in the Western hemisphere understand this full well with regard to the United States."…

>This seems too forgiving of Russia and also the US re: Central and South America.

He seems to be saying that Russia/the US reaction is probably morally wrong, but completely expected behavior. And the moral aspect isn't worth considering as history has shown that great powers usually act out of strategic interest not moral consideration.

Yeah, it'd be great if great power politics ended. Ukraine trying to change to the US's side isn't going to end them.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#26

Post by albertopv » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 8:10 PM UTC

secabeen wrote: post #8

I took a number of classes with Mearshiemer in college. He's right on many things, wrong on others. In this case, he's right that NATO expansion at least contributed to the current situation, but I think he's wrong in undervaluing the great increases in peace and prosperity that have been gained in those countries that did join NATO.

He is wrong, eastern Europe countries joined NATO because they were scared of Russia, and they were right, Russia has a long history of invasions.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#27

Post by shkkmo » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 8:10 PM UTC

> We should be pivoting out of Europe to deal with China in a laser-like fashion, number one. And, number two, we should be working overtime to create friendly relations with the Russians. The Russians are part of our balancing coalition against China. If you live in a world where there are three great powers—China, Russia, and the United States—and one of those great powers, China, is a peer competitor, what you want to do if you’re the United States is have Russia on your side of the ledger. Instead, what we have done with our foolish policies in Eastern Europe is drive the Russians into the arms of the Chinese. This is a violation of Balance of Power Politics 101.

This is the part that confuses me about recent American foreign policy. This line of reasoning seems so blatantly clear that I don't understand why we have consistently adopted such hawkish policies against Russia. We have allies that do stuff that is at least as sketchy, morally and legally, as what we accuse Russia of doing, so why have we made Russia an enemy?

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#28

Post by thriftwy » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 8:10 PM UTC

hutzlibu wrote: post #16

majormajor wrote: post #9

Mearsheimer also is directly blaming Ukraine here in a way that hardly seems reasonable. "When you’re a country like Ukraine and you live next door to a great power like Russia, you have to pay careful attention to what the Russians think, because if you take a stick and you poke them in the eye, they’re going to retaliate. States in the Western hemisphere understand this full well with regard to the United States."…

"Putin has fucking nukes, is he seriously afraid of being invaded himself?" He is afraid of insignificance. Once there was a great RUS empire, now there isn't. Many russians feel sad about that. I don't to be honest, because those great empires, whether from the tsar or sowjets, were mainly known for slave conditions for most people.

After the arguable win in the Cold War, the winning party has failed to offer the better peace to Russia.

Just compare the fate of Japan in 1944 vs. 1954 and Russia in 1989 vs. Russia in 1999. It has caused an enormous traumatic syndrome in the russian society.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#29

Post by majormajor » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 8:10 PM UTC

mantas wrote: post #18

majormajor wrote: post #9

Mearsheimer also is directly blaming Ukraine here in a way that hardly seems reasonable. "When you’re a country like Ukraine and you live next door to a great power like Russia, you have to pay careful attention to what the Russians think, because if you take a stick and you poke them in the eye, they’re going to retaliate. States in the Western hemisphere understand this full well with regard to the United States."…

Putin feels invaded from the day USSR collapsed. By countries that were annexed or controlled by USSR regaining sovereignty.

That is still actually different from what Mearsheimer is claiming - that happened much earlier than NATO expansion and recent changes in Ukraine.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#30

Post by mantas » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 8:11 PM UTC

empressplay wrote: post #21

majormajor wrote: post #9

Mearsheimer also is directly blaming Ukraine here in a way that hardly seems reasonable. "When you’re a country like Ukraine and you live next door to a great power like Russia, you have to pay careful attention to what the Russians think, because if you take a stick and you poke them in the eye, they’re going to retaliate. States in the Western hemisphere understand this full well with regard to the United States."…

I'm Canadian. As a Canadian I am fully aware that my country exists strictly at the whim of the US. If we were to decide to form a military alliance with Russia, hosting Russian troops on our soil, Canada would be invaded by the US in a New York minute. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. It sucks of course but it is what it is. That is all he is saying.

The problem is, what do you do when people really really want to change geopolitical circumstances and jump over to the other alliance? Refuse their company and tell them to GTFO to abusive neighbour they're tired of? And then watch on 24/7 news channel how is it going?