Because checking off features matter more than usability when a manager is the one buying it instead of the person using it Next question
>There are two types of baby outfits. The first is targeted at people buying gifts. It's irresistible on the rack. It has no fewer than 18 buttons. At least 3 people are needed to get a screaming baby into it. It's worn once, so you can send a photo to the gifter, then discarded. >Other baby outfits are meant for parents. They’re marked "Easy On, Easy Off" or some such, and they really mean it. Zippers aren't easy en…
Why enterprise software is bloated
21–30 of 144 posts
Re: Why enterprise software is bloated
#22In terms of using "bloated platforms" like Javascript and Python, I get a whiff of superiority from OP as there simply is no reason to build for size or speed unless it is part of the deliverable feature set. Nobody in their right mind would be writing serverless functions in C++/Rust or a Windows form to enter timesheet information (UX is about design, not platform, and is always seen as a secondary cost). If you are determined to use C++/Rust before a project has started then you're under the spell/threat of rockstar employees without a care for long term support.
The problematic Enterprise Applications I've worked on all had the same things in common, a bad maintenance plan or an expectation that the software will last decades without change. It was never, "this should have been written in xyz", its almost always that the domain knowledge has gone, and alongside it, the source code.
If you're in a business, expecting to exist in decades time, using a moving target to host your systems, like any OS, you better look at the long game, as well as the short, and factor in versioning, source control and inevitable bit rot. Its not about how old it looks, or how fast it could be.
Ultimately, there is a massive desire for businesses to offload development entirely via no-code platforms like PowerApps and absolutely no desire to make code that requires more expensive technical hires to maintain, or add more process to manage.
Finally, I've been coming across a lot of developers pining for the "old days" where you could change change things willy nilly and release it, without writing tests or having code reviews. These were the bad old days, and they're long gone. They got away with it because software was not as ubiquitous, and the internet wasn't around to spread 0-day vulnerabilities, and had very little oversight.
Re: Why enterprise software is bloated
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
>There are two types of baby outfits. The first is targeted at people buying gifts. It's irresistible on the rack. It has no fewer than 18 buttons. At least 3 people are needed to get a screaming baby into it. It's worn once, so you can send a photo to the gifter, then discarded. >Other baby outfits are meant for parents. They’re marked "Easy On, Easy Off" or some such, and they really mean it. Zippers aren't easy en…
I have a four month old and was inspired to buy one outfit with magnets because of this tweet. It works fairly well, but is no better than a single zipper outfit and is much more expensive.
Re: Why enterprise software is bloated
#24One only needs to look at the language he suggested, Javascript, to see an example of incredible bloat with the 5gib of modules it brings it to do print "hello, world"... but despite that, I don't think that's the root cause. It has to do everything with poor management of features and lack of leadership. Software _should_ be developed as features are needed. Average humans are absolute crap at predicting things like…
Re: Why enterprise software is bloated
#25Because every customer needs different features. No one wants to make their workflow follow what the software dictates, they want the software to support the workflow the business uses
True. People only miss out on the fact that, especially ERP systems, are to a huge extend a colection of process best parctices. By sticking as much as possible to the out of the box solution, not only and release changes or integrations become easier, but you also get a busoness process benchmark and consulting on top, automatically. Benefiting from all that does require so more depth of thought than most upper mana…
I would actually go further and say that enterprise ERPs are full-fledged development environments, often with custom languages and code editors. Quality varies wildly, though.
The fact that some of them are able to handle the processes of some companies out of the box is almost accidental.
Re: Why enterprise software is bloated
#26Case in point, I manage an org with a $200M budget. I have a budget line for a $90 software item for some VIP somewhere that has to be justified/validated annually by somebody. That $90 probably costs is $500.
But… We subscribe to office. Adding teams required zero effort, because of the bundling effect. Slack at the time was going through a PoC/vetting process, but why bother if I have a 80% product. The pitch was that Teams was “free”… although mysteriously the price of Office was revised upward.
Re: Why enterprise software is bloated
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
>There are two types of baby outfits. The first is targeted at people buying gifts. It's irresistible on the rack. It has no fewer than 18 buttons. At least 3 people are needed to get a screaming baby into it. It's worn once, so you can send a photo to the gifter, then discarded. >Other baby outfits are meant for parents. They’re marked "Easy On, Easy Off" or some such, and they really mean it. Zippers aren't easy en…
I thought the example was convincing until I got a child myself. The hard part is getting the legs and arms in. The 10 buttons are easy.
Yes, until you reach the 9th buttonhole, but you've already used up all the buttons.
Re: Why enterprise software is bloated
#28A enterprise NEEDS ALL.
I work in this niche (mostly for small companies), and what I see for this past +25 years is that even the most "small" of all companies have a HUGE array of needs, apps, data to work, laws to comply, demands of suppliers AND their customers (that RECURSIVELY add bloat!), both ancient, current, modern, and next-gen tech in their stacks.
Is like a developer that instead of being only "LAMP" + editor, is one that:
- Support Mysql, Postgres, Sql Server, Sqlite, FoxPro, Firebase, DBISAM, redis and in terrible days mongo
- N-variations of csv and alikes, json, toml, yalm, .ini, binaries formats...
- Talk to cobol, web services (SOAP, JSON, RPC, GraphQL), pipes of commands
- Deal with python, java, swift, obj-c, .net, c, c++, c#,, f#, go, rust, js, typescript, css, html
- Test on chrome, safari, firefox, ie (OLD ie)
- Windows, Linux, Mac, iOS, Android, Web
- bash, cmd, powershell
- VS Studio toolchain, LLVM toolchain, OSX toolchain, Android toolchain
- Docker, normal deploy, CI
- Sublime, VS Code, Xcode, IntelliJ, Notepad++, Notepad (as-is), nano and in very bad days, vim
- Have Hardware: M1 laptop, Lenovo Windows machine, iPhone, iPad, Android phone
WHO can be the lunatic that deals with all of this?
ME.
(if you wanna understand why I so grumpy about C, C++, Js, Android, the state of shells, terminals, rdbms, nosql, now you know)
I don't mean I fully deep dive to ALL of this, but I need to at least HAVE it or install, or touch it here and there. Is like I say:
Not matter how SMALL a "company" is, it
NEEDS ALL.
Re: Why enterprise software is bloated
#29Only part of software optimisation which should be focusing early should be cross cutting concerns like logging, monitoring, authentication, etc. Business logics should be separated from these and optimised only when required. Consuming more resource is better than rewriting business logics and fixing bugs.
Re: Why enterprise software is bloated
#30Because checking off features matter more than usability when a manager is the one buying it instead of the person using it Next question
And generally the most important feature for a manager to check off is the one never mentioned (at least on the customer-organization end) - "How does the Shiny Newness, Dog & Pony Show, and Buzzword Parade offered by this software make me feel about myself?"