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Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

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Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#21

Post by woodruffw »

dahfizz wrote: post #19
woodruffw wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems like a cop-out to me, especially when dealing with scarce resources (ie. admission slots). Your policy of "more inclusion" by giving preferential treatment to one group, ends up excluding everyone else. I never agreed to artificial scarcity in the form of admission slots, and so I'm not interested in defending any particular consequence of that system.

Admission slots are not artificially scarce. You don't have to be a genius to imagine why you can't admit 100 million students into a particular school. You're still avoiding the question. Is your position "I support inclusion, only when resources are not scarce?"

> You don't have to be a genius to imagine why you can't admit 100 million students into a particular school.

You don't admit 100 million students to an excellent school. You make 1 million excellent schools and admit 100 students to each. There is no reason for there to be a scarcity of excellent education in our wealthy, developed country.

I support actions that make the world a more just place in the Rawlsian sense of the word. Affirmative action makes the world a more just place.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#22

Post by goodoldneon »

TeeMassive wrote: post #2

What is the mainstream Progressive justification for discriminating against Asians?

The goal isn't to disadvantage Asians in particular. It's about balancing demographics by giving advantages to under-represented groups, which inherently means giving disadvantages to over-represented groups.

Affirmative action is messy because it's getting in the middle of zero sum games (e.g. college admissions and hiring). But diversity is a significant problem in many parts of American society, and just about every proposed solution is messy, ineffective, or both.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#23

Post by endisneigh »

the problem is and always has been that the particular school you attend has too much weight, irrespective of ability or aptitude. if college admissions were high school blind then this wouldn't even matter to begin with. simply being great, regardless of which school you attend would be enough.

re: TJH admissions:

> In 2020, during the summer after George Floyd’s death, the Virginia state government announced that it would be requiring schools to step up their efforts in diversity. Fairfax County Public Schools Superintendent Scott Brabrand’s response was fairly simple. To create a new, broader admissions pool, he proposed eliminating the $100 application fee, the standardized test, and teacher recommendations in favor of a “merit lottery.” The district would be carved into regions, and each region would be given 70 seats in the incoming TJ class. As long as you applied and had the minimum required GPA of 3.5, you would have as good a chance at getting in as any other student from your group.

What exactly is the problem with this?

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#24

Post by lotsofpulp »

bpodgursky wrote: post #16
woodruffw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody believes this, unless that's a particularly tortured way of describing the model minority[1] phenomenon. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority

"White adjacent" is a real term used non-ironically by (at least some) progressives to describe Asians and some Middle Eastern groups.

I was recently informed that the term BIPOC is for every non white person except south and east and southeast Asians.

That one threw me for a loop.

Perhaps there should just be a word for descendants of people with lower socioeconomic status/power/opportunities.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#25

Post by com2kid »

goodoldneon wrote: post #22
TeeMassive wrote: post #2

What is the mainstream Progressive justification for discriminating against Asians?

The goal isn't to disadvantage Asians in particular. It's about balancing demographics by giving advantages to under-represented groups, which inherently means giving disadvantages to over-represented groups. Affirmative action is messy because it's getting in the middle of zero sum games (e.g. college admissions and hiring). But diversity is a significant problem in many parts of American society, and just about eve…

America needs to build more colleges.

Based on current wtf pricing and demand, 2xing the number might do it.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#26

Post by tuna-piano »

gruez wrote: post #6
TeeMassive wrote: post #2

What is the mainstream Progressive justification for discriminating against Asians?

"It's not racism if you're being discriminated against but have power" https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52993306 >On 28 May, Ms Mitchum emailed Merriam-Webster to point out that racism is "both prejudice combined with social and institutional power. It is a system of advantage based on skin colour".

No 17 year old college applicant has power.

What would you call treating a 17 year old different based on their skin color? If we can't use the word racism anymore, then I'll call it bigoted.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#27

Post by woodruffw »

gruez wrote: post #15
woodruffw wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems like a cop-out to me, especially when dealing with scarce resources (ie. admission slots). Your policy of "more inclusion" by giving preferential treatment to one group, ends up excluding everyone else. I never agreed to artificial scarcity in the form of admission slots, and so I'm not interested in defending any particular consequence of that system.

Sorry for being unclear, the "cop-out" was a criticism with that position (ie. that we can do stuff because they're "inclusive" but ignore the consequences), not with you specifically.

Yep, this demonstrates (IMO) the actual problem: we want to have our cake (an artificially elite educational system) and eat it too.

I want to an artificially elite high school (one of the best in the country), and I would much rather see everyone and not just the presumed elite treated the way I was.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#28

Post by woodruffw »

bpodgursky wrote: post #16
woodruffw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody believes this, unless that's a particularly tortured way of describing the model minority[1] phenomenon. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority

"White adjacent" is a real term used non-ironically by (at least some) progressives to describe Asians and some Middle Eastern groups.

I've heard "White adjacent" before, including someone using it to describe me. I think that phrase, however you might feel about it, has a substantially different connotation than "Honorary White."

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#29

Post by refurb »

TeeMassive wrote: post #2

What is the mainstream Progressive justification for discriminating against Asians?

According to the recalled head of San Francisco's School Board, anyone who succeeds in the current system are using "white supremacist" thinking to get ahead:

"“Don’t Asian Americans know they are on his list as well?” Collins wrote, using asterisks in place of a racial slur. “Do they think they won’t be deported? profiled? beaten? Being a house n(asterisk)(asterisk)(asterisk)(asterisk)r is still being a n(asterisk)(asterisk)(asterisk)(asterisk)r. You’re still considered ‘the help.’”"

https://apnews.com/article/race-and-ethnicity-school-boards-...

Of course the more likely reason is that this is nothing more than a power grab and any data point that suggests minorities can succeed in the current system is an arrow at the heart of their political theories.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#30

Post by scythe »

woodruffw wrote: post #11
gruez wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Many progressives believe in affirmative action, which doesn't say anything about the particulars of the groups that aren't being explicitly included. Nobody at all is interested in exclusion; they are interested in more inclusion. Seems like a cop-out to me, especially when dealing with scarce resources (ie. admission slots). The policy of "more inclusion" by giving preferential treatment to one group, ends up excl…

> Seems like a cop-out to me, especially when dealing with scarce resources (ie. admission slots). Your policy of "more inclusion" by giving preferential treatment to one group, ends up excluding everyone else. I never agreed to artificial scarcity in the form of admission slots, and so I'm not interested in defending any particular consequence of that system.

>I never agreed to artificial scarcity in the form of admission slots, and so I'm not interested in defending any particular consequence of that system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

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