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World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

reuters.com

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Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#21

Post by amanaplanacanal »

karpierz wrote: post #10
bmitc wrote: post #4

> "For now aquaculture is the only available option." Wrong. I've stopped eating octopus. Of course, we can't stop eating every animal, even many that obviously feel distress and emotions, but we really need to draw a line on reducing and making sure that we raise or naturally hunt animals in a humane as possible way. Octopus is one I've taken a line on. Others still weigh on me. "Aquaculture" is being billed as the…

> Of course, we can't stop eating every animal Why? There are plenty of people who do.

I can’t tell how true that is. I’ve certainly heard that a lot of people who claim to be vegan aren’t 100%. Are there any reliable studies on this topic?

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#22

Post by stjohnswarts »

jodrellblank wrote: post #6
nefitty wrote: post #5

> Last year, researchers at the London School of Economics concluded from a review of 300 scientific studies that octopus were sentient beings capable of experiencing distress and happiness, and that high-welfare farming would be impossible. I don't understand how someone can decide to ignore that in an effort to make money. I fear that if we don't more quickly move the Overton window on the suffering of sentient cre…

Is it not clear that cows experience distress? And we farm and eat those. Or is this conclusion that octopuses experience distress and other animals are p-zombies which only react in a way that looks like distress but might be emotionally neutral inside?

I think the point is to start somewhere and nip this one in the bud.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#23

Post by causasui »

nefitty wrote: post #9
bmitc wrote: post #4

> "For now aquaculture is the only available option." Wrong. I've stopped eating octopus. Of course, we can't stop eating every animal, even many that obviously feel distress and emotions, but we really need to draw a line on reducing and making sure that we raise or naturally hunt animals in a humane as possible way. Octopus is one I've taken a line on. Others still weigh on me. "Aquaculture" is being billed as the…

I commend you for your decision. I want to add that framing my ideas about animal suffering in an elastic way makes it easier for me to make incremental changes. An animal is either alive or dead. Maybe eating vegetarian once a week will save a life down the line. I urge everyone to resist the all-or-nothing approach, especially on such an important aspect of our ethical choices. No one's perfect, not even the vegan…

> I urge everyone to resist the all-or-nothing approach

There is no other moral stance where someone could reasonably say this. Veganism is a moral stance the same way as "racism is bad" and "abusing my spouse is bad" is a moral stance. No one would ever say "I'm trying to limit kicking dogs to just Tuesday-Sunday".

> vegan straight edge kids on Instagram who sneak a chicken nugget when no one's looking.

You're projecting. Veganism is _not_ a diet.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#24

Post by handmodel »

pranith wrote: post #14
KerryJones wrote: post #7

I've had several people in my life tell me after more intense studies of octopi they refuse to eat them. While I've seen a couple of documentaries on the subject, I won't profess to know as much, but the essential argument has been that they're extremely intelligent, emotional animals. It's akin to eating a dog or cat (which might be acceptable in some parts of the world, but pretty shunned in the west). It's convinc…

Even cows are extremely intelligent and emotional animals. Did you stop eating them?

This is what I don't quite get. Perhaps eating octopi seems gratuitous since they are expensive and not integrated into everyday customs/life. But hard to imagine an octopus is on a higher status than a pig or a cow which are fairly close to us evolutionarily.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#25

Post by stjohnswarts »

alliao wrote: post #8
nefitty wrote: post #5

> Last year, researchers at the London School of Economics concluded from a review of 300 scientific studies that octopus were sentient beings capable of experiencing distress and happiness, and that high-welfare farming would be impossible. I don't understand how someone can decide to ignore that in an effort to make money. I fear that if we don't more quickly move the Overton window on the suffering of sentient cre…

the same would apply to pretty much all animals no? and dare I say plants too?

So we all just starve now because we can't eat plants? I don't like your plan.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#27

Post by jazzyjackson »

bmitc wrote: post #4

> "For now aquaculture is the only available option." Wrong. I've stopped eating octopus. Of course, we can't stop eating every animal, even many that obviously feel distress and emotions, but we really need to draw a line on reducing and making sure that we raise or naturally hunt animals in a humane as possible way. Octopus is one I've taken a line on. Others still weigh on me. "Aquaculture" is being billed as the…

> Why do humans have a complete lack of an ability to say "stop, we're not going to do this anymore".

Because not doing things leaves you with a distinct lack of capital. Not dragging on capitalism, just being descriptive: those who act collect the resources to act more

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#28

Post by honkycat »

By all accounts octopus intelligence is extremely overblown. And "sentience" is an extremely low bar.

Compare the intelligence of a cow or pig or similar mammal to an octopus and the mammal will DESTROY the octopus. We tolerate farming these animals. Much to our own detriment in terms of health, and nutrition, and environmental impact, land usage, and water usage. Plus there is the problem of breeding MRSA. Plus they are horrible for our gut bacteria. Also they are sentient, intelligent creatures we subject to horrific environments. Keep in mind, I say this as someone who is NOT a vegan. But I digress...

Not to say octopus are not charming animals, and you should support eating and farming them. I just think it is a bit hypocritical to allow the farming of other sentient creatures.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#29

Post by amanaplanacanal »

nefitty wrote: post #13
alliao wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the same would apply to pretty much all animals no? and dare I say plants too?

Animals yes. Plants? I eat them without guilt. I wouldn't eat insects, not only because of my conditioned disgust, but now even moreso because crustaceans were found to be capable of suffering based on an 8-point scale. Bugs and crabs don't seem so far off to one another in my mind.

We as a society seem to have no problem killing millions of insects to make it easier to grow plants though. No matter what you eat, things are dying to supply your food.

If you want to minimize the number of animals being killed, it’s probably best to eat the largest ones you have.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#30

Post by Tostino »

bmitc wrote: post #4

> "For now aquaculture is the only available option." Wrong. I've stopped eating octopus. Of course, we can't stop eating every animal, even many that obviously feel distress and emotions, but we really need to draw a line on reducing and making sure that we raise or naturally hunt animals in a humane as possible way. Octopus is one I've taken a line on. Others still weigh on me. "Aquaculture" is being billed as the…

Yeah, i've not eaten much Octapus previously, but I had it occasionally in sushi or civeche that came with it. But I really can't continue to eat it even in that capacity in good conscience.

Was something that I had thought about previously, but wasn't until I actually saw one while diving that I decided I couldn't continue eating.

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