Startup Koolaid - It's a beverage, it's a lifestyle • Hacker News Board

Re: Startup Koolaid - It's a beverage, it's a lifestyle

#21

Post by revorad » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 10:14 AM UTC

nadam wrote: post #17

gavanwoolery wrote: post #11

Jokes are just witty truths. The startup scene is increasingly becoming a joke. I mean no disrespect to anyone who works in the scene - not to employees, not to founders, and not even to many investors. I used to be part of it myself. But what the hell is going on? People are trying to find out how many ways they can push around bits of information. They get an investment, iterate like crazy, and strive to get acquir…

I have been alienated from the startup scene because I find that the current tech-startup scene is not about technology. Sure, when a startup gets big, it has to deal with scale: this is a territory where some deep engineering is needed. But other than that it is not the kind of research and development I admire. A lot of influental people in the startup scene has not a clue what creative engineering is about. (Think…

Startups are more about business than technical innovation. If you're more interested in hard engineering problems, it's probably best to seek those out wherever they may be, at a startup or not.

Re: Startup Koolaid - It's a beverage, it's a lifestyle

#22

Post by epo » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 10:18 AM UTC

emmett wrote: post #12

gavanwoolery wrote: post #11

Jokes are just witty truths. The startup scene is increasingly becoming a joke. I mean no disrespect to anyone who works in the scene - not to employees, not to founders, and not even to many investors. I used to be part of it myself. But what the hell is going on? People are trying to find out how many ways they can push around bits of information. They get an investment, iterate like crazy, and strive to get acquir…

It's important to keep in mind that the total amount of money going into early stage startups is still a rounding error on larger economic investment. Numbers that feel personally large, like "$40 million" are actually very small in economic terms.

Most monetary amounts are small when compared to the economy as a whole. Got any more insights for us? "The sky is only blue when you compare to grass" perhaps?

Re: Startup Koolaid - It's a beverage, it's a lifestyle

#23

Post by nadam » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 10:24 AM UTC

revorad wrote: post #21

nadam wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been alienated from the startup scene because I find that the current tech-startup scene is not about technology. Sure, when a startup gets big, it has to deal with scale: this is a territory where some deep engineering is needed. But other than that it is not the kind of research and development I admire. A lot of influental people in the startup scene has not a clue what creative engineering is about. (Think…

Startups are more about business than technical innovation. If you're more interested in hard engineering problems, it's probably best to seek those out wherever they may be, at a startup or not.

I think there was an era when tech-startups were more tech focused from the beginning. Think about the beginning of Intel, Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, Borland, etc... (Even Google, but not Facebook.) On the other hand I don't want to complain. Ilove working on my side project. And I will try to create a business of it at a point. I just don't concentrate too much on that aspect at this point. I don't want it to distract me from R&D right now.

Re: Startup Koolaid - It's a beverage, it's a lifestyle

#24

Post by revorad » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 10:37 AM UTC

nadam wrote: post #23

revorad wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Startups are more about business than technical innovation. If you're more interested in hard engineering problems, it's probably best to seek those out wherever they may be, at a startup or not.

I think there was an era when tech-startups were more tech focused from the beginning. Think about the beginning of Intel, Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, Borland, etc... (Even Google, but not Facebook.) On the other hand I don't want to complain. Ilove working on my side project. And I will try to create a business of it at a point. I just don't concentrate too much on that aspect at this point. I don't want it to distrac…

Of course there have always been some startups which seem to be more tech-focused. But, is there any evidence the percentage or absolute number of those has fallen?

Surely, you've heard of Octopart, 10gen, Blekko, DDG, Heroku, Hipmunk, DirectedEdge, RethinkDB. These are just some off the top of my head. If you don't think they're solving hard problems (not in the sense of sharing lolcats at webscale), then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Re: Startup Koolaid - It's a beverage, it's a lifestyle

#25

Post by nadam » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 10:51 AM UTC

revorad wrote: post #24

nadam wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there was an era when tech-startups were more tech focused from the beginning. Think about the beginning of Intel, Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, Borland, etc... (Even Google, but not Facebook.) On the other hand I don't want to complain. Ilove working on my side project. And I will try to create a business of it at a point. I just don't concentrate too much on that aspect at this point. I don't want it to distrac…

Of course there have always been some startups which seem to be more tech-focused. But, is there any evidence the percentage or absolute number of those has fallen? Surely, you've heard of Octopart, 10gen, Blekko, DDG, Heroku, Hipmunk, DirectedEdge, RethinkDB. These are just some off the top of my head. If you don't think they're solving hard problems (not in the sense of sharing lolcats at webscale), then we'll just…

" then we'll just have to agree to disagree."

Oh, no, some of those are the companies that I am the most excited about in the current tech scene. I am not the kind of guy anyway who want to prove a point on this (despite the above 'rant'). I am just happy do discuss this. (I am an INTP and not INTJ). I don't have data on this, I just have a feeling that there were way fewer so called tech-startups 30 years ago, and according to some metrics (revenue, publicity) the ratio of highly-tech-oriented-from-the-start startups were higher. A thorough research on this would be interesting.

Re: Startup Koolaid - It's a beverage, it's a lifestyle

#26

Post by veyron » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 11:49 AM UTC

ljf wrote: post #20

The thing that always niggles me about the 'drinking the company/start-up Koolaid' is it's reference to the Jonestown massacre. It was actually Flavor-Aid that was used to mask the Valium, chloral hydrate, cyanide, and Phenergan, and kill 907 people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown#Deaths_in_Jonestown / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavor_Aid

I thought it was a reference to Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters (for some reason, it was deemed a good idea to have 9th grade students read the Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test)

Re: Startup Koolaid - It's a beverage, it's a lifestyle

#27

Post by ljf » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 12:47 PM UTC

veyron wrote: post #26

ljf wrote: post #20

The thing that always niggles me about the 'drinking the company/start-up Koolaid' is it's reference to the Jonestown massacre. It was actually Flavor-Aid that was used to mask the Valium, chloral hydrate, cyanide, and Phenergan, and kill 907 people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown#Deaths_in_Jonestown / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavor_Aid

I thought it was a reference to Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters (for some reason, it was deemed a good idea to have 9th grade students read the Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test)

I'd always though it was that too - I'd presumed was a roughly positive expression, eg once you've drunk the company Kool-Aid, you get to see the bigger picture and understand more.

A visiting American put me right, before I'd had chance to use it incorrectly!

(Amazing book btw, love it)

Re: Startup Koolaid - It's a beverage, it's a lifestyle

#28

Post by jtbigwoo » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 2:37 PM UTC

nadam wrote: post #23

revorad wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Startups are more about business than technical innovation. If you're more interested in hard engineering problems, it's probably best to seek those out wherever they may be, at a startup or not.

I think there was an era when tech-startups were more tech focused from the beginning. Think about the beginning of Intel, Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, Borland, etc... (Even Google, but not Facebook.) On the other hand I don't want to complain. Ilove working on my side project. And I will try to create a business of it at a point. I just don't concentrate too much on that aspect at this point. I don't want it to distrac…

Microsoft's success was not about tech, though they had (and continue to have) plenty of good coders; it was about deal-making. You could also argue that marketing savvy and great timing had as much to do with Apple's earliest successes as the products themselves.

Re: Startup Koolaid - It's a beverage, it's a lifestyle

#29

Post by gavanwoolery » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 5:48 PM UTC

borism wrote: post #18

gavanwoolery wrote: post #11

Jokes are just witty truths. The startup scene is increasingly becoming a joke. I mean no disrespect to anyone who works in the scene - not to employees, not to founders, and not even to many investors. I used to be part of it myself. But what the hell is going on? People are trying to find out how many ways they can push around bits of information. They get an investment, iterate like crazy, and strive to get acquir…

> tech companies can fizzle into nothingness in seconds their products and services can. but the people who made them and their ideas usually don't disappear without a trace. so if you see a service that was quickly shutdown by parent company after acquisition, you have to realize it wasn't about product but team or intellectual property (or just keeping them off competitors' hands)

I agree with that thought completely - but sometimes even with people and IP in mind valuations get a little crazy (such as Google trying to acquire Path for $100 million, which they admitted was mostly based on acquiring the team).