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TSMC 5nm: 171 MTr/mm2 in 2021 (for apple A15)
Intel 10nm: 100.76 MTr/mm2 in 2021 (for 12th core-i)
Intel keep saying they will win in the future, while they seems forget TSMC will improve too. Comparing Intel 10nm with TSMC 7nm is outdated.
Or is there any objective metrics to determine which one is better, other than MTr/mm2?
[1] https://www.anandtech.com/show/16823/intel-accelerated-offen...
Disappointed that Intel had to change their naming because otherwise they'd lose out in marketing honestly. Corporations can't be truthful because a competitor won't be.
Back in the day everyone was concerned with the number of bit their gaming console had. The Nintendo 64 was the last to use bits as a primary marketing feature.
That's not true. There are some new "retro" consoles whose primary marketing feature is that they are 8 bit. For example the RES Plus' primary marking feature is that it plays 8 bit games.
But in consider of time to mass production and density[1]: TSMC 5nm: 171 MTr/mm2 in 2021 (for apple A15) Intel 10nm: 100.76 MTr/mm2 in 2021 (for 12th core-i) Intel keep saying they will win in the future, while they seems forget TSMC will improve too. Comparing Intel 10nm with TSMC 7nm is outdated. Or is there any objective metrics to determine which one is better, other than MTr/mm2? [1] https://www.anandtech.com/sh…
> Or is there any objective metrics to determine which one is better, other than MTr/mm2?
There are many, many objective metrics. Many are interdependent, many are tunable or selectable within certain ranges, many are in opposition, most are highly secretive, and all of them influence he type of device being made, the circuit design, logic, in different ways.
Even the experts with all the data for a particular technology and with a particular device in mind can't necessarily tell at a glance whether a change would be worthwhile. And even the meaning of worthwhile varies for the end-user of the device depending where their workload is. Make the middle-performing transistor slightly faster and leakier? Great you can close timing at a few ps faster but the device uses more power and is hotter, good for some customers bad for others.
Even simple density is not that simple in the fine details. Density can be in opposition to leakage, switching speeds, wire RC and propagation delay, etc.
There isn't an easy way to compare and there never will be.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Back in the day everyone was concerned with the number of bit their gaming console had. The Nintendo 64 was the last to use bits as a primary marketing feature.
>The Nintendo 64 was the last to use bits as a primary marketing feature. That's not true. There are some new "retro" consoles whose primary marketing feature is that they are 8 bit. For example the RES Plus' primary marking feature is that it plays 8 bit games.
It really feels like this should be illegal.
Why? The average consumer doesn't care whether the semiconductor in their smartphones are 7nm or 5nm, they care about speed and power efficiency. Anyone who does care about feature size/density would know this and wouldn't be misled. Besides, they themselves don't care about feature sizes either, they only really care about other performance characteristics (eg. density, power consumption, switching speed), not some…
But EUV is a real thing and cleanly divides the haves and the have nots. While Intel 7 may have similar density to TSMC 7, there is a huge difference in the process and cost of making them. Intel will not go beyond that without EUV, and neither will anyone else.
>sigh I'm really annoyed that I didn't know this.
No wonder why I am upset at the quality of hardware discussions on HN. And if you want to start a spin against TSMC, which I am already observing this trend on both twitter and Reddit. ( Not yet on HN ). Dont. TSMC didn't started it. Blame ingredient marketing, blame the (cough GPU cough ) customer, market analysts, Marketing or Apple. ( Not really Apple, but media that follows and publish news about Apple ).
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why? The average consumer doesn't care whether the semiconductor in their smartphones are 7nm or 5nm, they care about speed and power efficiency. Anyone who does care about feature size/density would know this and wouldn't be misled. Besides, they themselves don't care about feature sizes either, they only really care about other performance characteristics (eg. density, power consumption, switching speed), not some…
Because you're advertising a product in a way that's deceitful, obviously. If I sell you a CPU and I say "yeah it's 4.5ghz", and it turns out it runs at 1.6ghz, it should be illegal to say "ghz is just a brand, it's marketing".
Hasn't the tech community known this for years?
It's the same as software engineers who don't know what SIMD is or think the CPU in their laptop or smartphone works like a MIPS they studied in college. When something like this is only one click away: https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/microarchitectures/sunny_...