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Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

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Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#21

Post by xupybd »

berenza wrote: post #16
xupybd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay. I'm not sure about the United States but here in NZ you can't enter a restaurant if you don't have a vaccine. You can't attend a funeral with over 25 people while unvaccinated. You can't attend or have a wedding with over 25 people. I find it hard to think these restrictions can be justified as a public safety measure if they don't lower transmission. Limiting severe infection is up to the individual. They seem…

i'm not vaccinated and will not be getting the jab, and i think vaccine mandates are a laughably bad idea, but you could easily just say less severe disease = less pressure on public health systems and "justify" it that way.

Why don't we do the same with overweight people or smokers. Sorry you can't go to a restaurant or funeral unless you lose weight or quit smoking. That would take pressure off the public health system.

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#22

Post by sofixa »

xupybd wrote: post #21
berenza wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm not vaccinated and will not be getting the jab, and i think vaccine mandates are a laughably bad idea, but you could easily just say less severe disease = less pressure on public health systems and "justify" it that way.

Why don't we do the same with overweight people or smokers. Sorry you can't go to a restaurant or funeral unless you lose weight or quit smoking. That would take pressure off the public health system.

Is there an epidemic of smokers or overweight people clogging up to all hospital beds, as was the case with Covid a few times in a few different countries? No? Then it's not comparable.

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#23

Post by berenza »

sofixa wrote: post #22
xupybd wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't we do the same with overweight people or smokers. Sorry you can't go to a restaurant or funeral unless you lose weight or quit smoking. That would take pressure off the public health system.

Is there an epidemic of smokers or overweight people clogging up to all hospital beds, as was the case with Covid a few times in a few different countries? No? Then it's not comparable.

obesity- and smoking-related illnesses take up a huge share of available health care resources. to say they are "clogging up" hospital beds is a little insensitive though.

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#24

Post by sofixa »

berenza wrote: post #23
sofixa wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an epidemic of smokers or overweight people clogging up to all hospital beds, as was the case with Covid a few times in a few different countries? No? Then it's not comparable.

obesity- and smoking-related illnesses take up a huge share of available health care resources. to say they are "clogging up" hospital beds is a little insensitive though.

Patients with heavy Covid cases ( like the ones that needed ventilators to breathe) took all the place in many hospitals and healthcare systems, and then some ( temporary and military hospitals were deployed to help with that). It's not even remotely comparable.

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#26

Post by mlyle »

berenza wrote: post #18
elil17 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not an article, it’s correspondence (e.g. what one guy thinks about some other articles he’s read). Plus, the articles being discussed have very small sample sizes.

the "one guy" you are referring to seems to be reputable and experienced enough to be speaking through the lancet. https://www.rmian.org/dr-carlos-francoparedes

Sure. But it's not a peer-reviewed Lancet paper. It's just one (well-qualified) person's opinion who disagrees with the current prevailing view held by other well-qualified people.

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#27

Post by mlyle »

berenza wrote: post #19
elil17 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this isn’t even a study - it’s one person’s interpretation of a variety of studies, none of which directly show what he is suggesting. In this case, more research is literally needed to have any sort of answer to the question the author is bringing up.

while you wait for more research, i suggest looking at the countries that have ended their mandates this year, and how they are doing, as a cheap and expedient form of research into the question of how useful mandates are.

We're talking about the efficacy of vaccination in preventing infection. I assume you're talking about ending mask mandates, which seems like a bit of a silly thing to bring up.

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#28

Post by berenza »

sofixa wrote: post #24
berenza wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

obesity- and smoking-related illnesses take up a huge share of available health care resources. to say they are "clogging up" hospital beds is a little insensitive though.

Patients with heavy Covid cases ( like the ones that needed ventilators to breathe) took all the place in many hospitals and healthcare systems, and then some ( temporary and military hospitals were deployed to help with that). It's not even remotely comparable.

i recall looking over the occupancy numbers for the temporary hospitals and hospital ships deployed as a response to the 2020 outbreaks in the UK and US, and they were mostly empty. sadly i cannot find that info now so i guess i'll just have to shrug about it. and i assume "took all the place in many hospitals and healthcare systems" is an exaggeration. i would still have to assert the health care costs to society of obesity and smoking are comparable to the costs of acute covid surges though.

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#29

Post by berenza »

mlyle wrote: post #27
berenza wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while you wait for more research, i suggest looking at the countries that have ended their mandates this year, and how they are doing, as a cheap and expedient form of research into the question of how useful mandates are.

We're talking about the efficacy of vaccination in preventing infection. I assume you're talking about ending mask mandates, which seems like a bit of a silly thing to bring up.

you could do it for any covid-related public health measure or mandate, depending on the places you compared. denmark and sweden and norway and the UK are all ending, or have ended, all restrictions this quarter. i recall other countries (and states in the US) have done similar at different times in the past 2 years, but i'm not feeling like googling them right now.

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#30

Post by mlyle »

berenza wrote: post #29
mlyle wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about the efficacy of vaccination in preventing infection. I assume you're talking about ending mask mandates, which seems like a bit of a silly thing to bring up.

you could do it for any covid-related public health measure or mandate, depending on the places you compared. denmark and sweden and norway and the UK are all ending, or have ended, all restrictions this quarter. i recall other countries (and states in the US) have done similar at different times in the past 2 years, but i'm not feeling like googling them right now.

That doesn't seem to be a reasonable kind of logic-- "some places are choosing to end mask mandates, therefore vaccines don't work."
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