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The complete idiot's guide to OpenBSD on the Pinebook Pro

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Re: The complete idiot's guide to OpenBSD on the Pinebook Pro

#21

Post by tremon »

anthk wrote: post #20
xorcist wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a relatively recent thing. Before that, all major Linux distributions gave you a bunch of different filesystems by default. Which is how all UNIX-like systems worked, for a number of historical reasons. This wasn't great in practice. One partition layout certainly doesn't fit everbody, and there is a world of difference between the use case of a laptop, a database server, and a small web server. Most people outg…

BSD's don't use partitions, but slices. And, well, NetBSD it's pretty conservative, but OpenBSD's defaults are good for a desktop.

For all practical intents and purposes, BSD's use partitions. They just call them differently because they use a different technical implementation. But they're still just as static and just as limiting as regular partitions.

Re: The complete idiot's guide to OpenBSD on the Pinebook Pro

#22

Post by aspyct »

Arnavion wrote: post #8
aspyct wrote: post #7

I'm amazed at how the openbsd community seems to like calling people idiots. I've been using various unices for about 20 years now, ranging from Slackware Linux to OpenSolaris to FreeBSD to Kubuntu. I gave openbsd a try a few years back, and found it utterly complicated to setup and use. And when you ask for help, you're treated like an idiot and the only reply you get is basically "rtfm". No joke, one of the guys sa…

So when you were told to RTFM, did you find the answer in the manual? If you didn't, did you tell them, and how did they respond? I don't have any experience with OpenBSD or its community, but I'm in several (Linux-related) communities that would also tell you to RTFM if you were to ask a question that we expect is answered in the FM. And we would be happy to be corrected if you came back and told us it wasn't there,…

You didn't read my whole comment, did you?

I said "edge cases for laptop X". Of course I read the FM. Of course I did my homework before asking question.

But that's it, right there: just considering that, by default, newcomers are incapable of reading the documentation. You just did it.

Re: The complete idiot's guide to OpenBSD on the Pinebook Pro

#23

Post by aspyct »

temprature wrote: post #11
aspyct wrote: post #7

I'm amazed at how the openbsd community seems to like calling people idiots. I've been using various unices for about 20 years now, ranging from Slackware Linux to OpenSolaris to FreeBSD to Kubuntu. I gave openbsd a try a few years back, and found it utterly complicated to setup and use. And when you ask for help, you're treated like an idiot and the only reply you get is basically "rtfm". No joke, one of the guys sa…

Do you have examples of what in OpenBSD you found "utterly complicated to setup and use"? I've been using for several years now because of how devoid of complexity it is and because of how comprehensive the documentation is. Trying to even install other Unices nowadays frustrates me to no end because they're more complicated than "just keep pressing enter".

Well, for one thing, setting up FDE was way harder that it should probably be for "the most secure os on the planet".

Also, I installed Kubuntu the other day, and I just kept pressing enter.

There was even a checkbox for FDE.

Re: The complete idiot's guide to OpenBSD on the Pinebook Pro

#24

Post by foxfluff »

anthk wrote: post #20
xorcist wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a relatively recent thing. Before that, all major Linux distributions gave you a bunch of different filesystems by default. Which is how all UNIX-like systems worked, for a number of historical reasons. This wasn't great in practice. One partition layout certainly doesn't fit everbody, and there is a world of difference between the use case of a laptop, a database server, and a small web server. Most people outg…

BSD's don't use partitions, but slices. And, well, NetBSD it's pretty conservative, but OpenBSD's defaults are good for a desktop.

What distinction are you trying to make?

     The disklabel utility can be used to install, examine, or modify the
     label on a disk drive or pack.  The disk label contains information about
     disk characteristics (size, type, etc.) and the partition layout, stored
     on the disk itself.

     disklabel supports 15 configurable partitions, `a' through `p', excluding
     `c'.  The `c' partition describes the entire physical disk, is
     automatically created by the kernel, and cannot be modified or deleted by
     disklabel.  By convention, the `a' partition of the boot disk is the root
     partition, and the `b' partition of the boot disk is the swap partition,
     but all other letters can be used in any order for any other partitions
     as desired.
The word "slice" does not come up in disklabel's man page at all.

http://man.openbsd.org/disklabel

Re: The complete idiot's guide to OpenBSD on the Pinebook Pro

#25

Post by aspyct »

daneel_w wrote: post #13
aspyct wrote: post #7

I'm amazed at how the openbsd community seems to like calling people idiots. I've been using various unices for about 20 years now, ranging from Slackware Linux to OpenSolaris to FreeBSD to Kubuntu. I gave openbsd a try a few years back, and found it utterly complicated to setup and use. And when you ask for help, you're treated like an idiot and the only reply you get is basically "rtfm". No joke, one of the guys sa…

I think you're overreacting and exaggerating, both regarding OpenBSD being complicated to set up and about the community being toxic. Yes, a certain few people on the official mailing lists can be a bit vocal and stingy, and that also goes for one or two asocial a**holes on the inofficial IRC channel (#openbsd/libera), but these people are few and by no means representative of the community. For the absolute majority…

> I cannot imagine why you would feel OpenBSD is complicated to set up.

Maybe the fact that there are so many manual steps to have a usable, "production grade", setup? Sure, you just have to follow documentation, but you're in for hours of work and learning tons of concepts before having anything secure if it's the first time. Also, if you make a single mistake along the way, all the help you'll get is a "Yeah, you did something wrong. RTFM".

That certainly isn't the definition of simple to me.

Re: The complete idiot's guide to OpenBSD on the Pinebook Pro

#26

Post by aspyct »

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #17
aspyct wrote: post #7

I'm amazed at how the openbsd community seems to like calling people idiots. I've been using various unices for about 20 years now, ranging from Slackware Linux to OpenSolaris to FreeBSD to Kubuntu. I gave openbsd a try a few years back, and found it utterly complicated to setup and use. And when you ask for help, you're treated like an idiot and the only reply you get is basically "rtfm". No joke, one of the guys sa…

the openbsd community seems to like calling people idiots Even the title of this article reflects that mindset There's cultural history about that very phrase. There was a series of books written with that exact title. They were intended to "provide a basic understanding of a complex and popular topics. The term 'idiot' is used as hyperbole". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_Idiot%27s_Guides Edit: I want to add…

Indeed, and it seems to be a nice write-up, not dismissing that. Kudos to the author.

Re: The complete idiot's guide to OpenBSD on the Pinebook Pro

#27

Post by nulbyte »

aspyct wrote: post #7

I'm amazed at how the openbsd community seems to like calling people idiots. I've been using various unices for about 20 years now, ranging from Slackware Linux to OpenSolaris to FreeBSD to Kubuntu. I gave openbsd a try a few years back, and found it utterly complicated to setup and use. And when you ask for help, you're treated like an idiot and the only reply you get is basically "rtfm". No joke, one of the guys sa…

> I'm amazed at how the openbsd community seems to like calling people idiots.

"The complete idiot's guide" is a well-known series of books that cover a variety of topics for beginners; the title is a play on that. It's not an insult.

Re: The complete idiot's guide to OpenBSD on the Pinebook Pro

#28

Post by aspyct »

nulbyte wrote: post #27
aspyct wrote: post #7

I'm amazed at how the openbsd community seems to like calling people idiots. I've been using various unices for about 20 years now, ranging from Slackware Linux to OpenSolaris to FreeBSD to Kubuntu. I gave openbsd a try a few years back, and found it utterly complicated to setup and use. And when you ask for help, you're treated like an idiot and the only reply you get is basically "rtfm". No joke, one of the guys sa…

> I'm amazed at how the openbsd community seems to like calling people idiots. "The complete idiot's guide" is a well-known series of books that cover a variety of topics for beginners; the title is a play on that. It's not an insult.

Author could have chosen any title. He chose this one. I wonder why.

Nice write-up though, kudos to him.

Re: The complete idiot's guide to OpenBSD on the Pinebook Pro

#29

Post by ospzfmbbzr »

nulbyte wrote: post #27
aspyct wrote: post #7

I'm amazed at how the openbsd community seems to like calling people idiots. I've been using various unices for about 20 years now, ranging from Slackware Linux to OpenSolaris to FreeBSD to Kubuntu. I gave openbsd a try a few years back, and found it utterly complicated to setup and use. And when you ask for help, you're treated like an idiot and the only reply you get is basically "rtfm". No joke, one of the guys sa…

> I'm amazed at how the openbsd community seems to like calling people idiots. "The complete idiot's guide" is a well-known series of books that cover a variety of topics for beginners; the title is a play on that. It's not an insult.

Never liked that branding for idiots.

I've used OpenBSD since 2000. I own a PinebookPro. The tired and lame title makes me think the author is a joke (right or wrong) and I end up not wanting to bother giving this a try.

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