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Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting

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Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting

#21

Post by dpark »

rfugger wrote: post #17
jrockway wrote: post #8

I doubt any major vendor will do this. First off, they don't want to be locked into selling Microsoft-only machines. If they can't pretend Linux is an option, Microsoft can charge them $1000 for a Windows license and there's nothing they can do about it. If they have Linux hanging over Microsoft's head, though, they'll get better pricing on Windows. (Think this won't happen? It already did with XP on netbooks. When M…

I doubt any major vendor will do this. First off, they don't want to be locked into selling Microsoft-only machines. If they can't pretend Linux is an option, Microsoft can charge them $1000 for a Windows license and there's nothing they can do about it. I doubt that secure boot is a factor in this, since it would be easy for vendors to disable by default in the factory if they wanted to install Linux. The point of t…

> The point of the article isn't that the machines will be Windows-only, but that dual booting may no longer be possible. It makes a point of emphasizing that secure booting will likely be easy for the user to disable, although that will disable Windows 8 as well.

Never going to happen. Win8 will install on machines built for Win7.

Win 8 is not going to refuse to boot on machines that have boot signing disabled.

Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting

#22

Post by cosgroveb »

jrockway wrote: post #9
mjg59 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm told that at least one vendor will be providing some systems that don't allow you to disable the requirement.

I'm told that at least one vendor is going to lose a lot of money when its investors find out about this.

I doubt that investors would be savvy enough to care but it would be a stupid move, nonetheless.

Besides, the server is where Linux matters, not consumer hardware.

Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting

#23

Post by mattgreenrocks »

ghshephard wrote: post #12

The first paragraph is just silly: "After years of trying to cut off Linux growth as a desktop platform on x86 and x64 PCs, Microsoft may have actually figured out a way to stop Linux deployments on client PCs dead in their tracks." I'm quite certain Microsoft has (A) not put any significant effort into cutting off growth as a desktop platform, and (B) If they had, they were almost completely successful, and characte…

Shhh, not so loud! Such thoughts would destabilize Slashdot if they got out!

Seriously, this seems especially short-sighted, as the perception is that MS is getting thrashed by Apple in the consumer market. I think its more about preventing malware from getting ahold of the boot process, side effects be damned.

Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting

#24

Post by cosgroveb »

karolisd wrote: post #4

Does this effect dual booting OS X? I doubt the side-effect of blocking Linux boots was anything but a coincidence. But could Microsoft be fearful of Hackintoshes becoming more popular and a increase of OS X running on non-Apple hardware?

Hackintoshes a threat to Windows? No offense, but that's laughable. It's been awhile since I put together one but it's such a huge pain in the ass that even most people capable of putting OS X on ordinary hardware won't bother.

Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting

#25

Post by wmf »

dpark wrote: post #21
rfugger wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt any major vendor will do this. First off, they don't want to be locked into selling Microsoft-only machines. If they can't pretend Linux is an option, Microsoft can charge them $1000 for a Windows license and there's nothing they can do about it. I doubt that secure boot is a factor in this, since it would be easy for vendors to disable by default in the factory if they wanted to install Linux. The point of t…

> The point of the article isn't that the machines will be Windows-only, but that dual booting may no longer be possible. It makes a point of emphasizing that secure booting will likely be easy for the user to disable, although that will disable Windows 8 as well. Never going to happen. Win8 will install on machines built for Win7. Win 8 is not going to refuse to boot on machines that have boot signing disabled.

That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the Windows 8 Logo Program, which is basically that sticker on a new PC that says it is certified to run Windows 8.

Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting

#26

Post by mattgreenrocks »

elithrar wrote: post #7
karolisd wrote: post #4

Does this effect dual booting OS X? I doubt the side-effect of blocking Linux boots was anything but a coincidence. But could Microsoft be fearful of Hackintoshes becoming more popular and a increase of OS X running on non-Apple hardware?

> Does this effect dual booting OS X? I doubt the side-effect of blocking Linux boots was anything but a coincidence. But could Microsoft be fearful of Hackintoshes becoming more popular and a increase of OS X running on non-Apple hardware? I doubt it. Whilst I don't mean to belittle the hard work that goes into the hackintosh projects out there, we're talking about a tiny, tiny group of people that probably have an…

Yep. Compatibility is extremely dicey on Hackintoshes -- the best seem to be running hardware that is chipset identical to those in Macs.

I'd be more worried about Apple waking up one day and shipping an update that breaks everything.

Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting

#28

Post by catch23 »

cosgroveb wrote: post #22
jrockway wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm told that at least one vendor is going to lose a lot of money when its investors find out about this.

I doubt that investors would be savvy enough to care but it would be a stupid move, nonetheless. Besides, the server is where Linux matters, not consumer hardware.

Investors are savvier than you'd think. Even on a rumor that the vendor is doing an exclusive lock-in with MS, I'm sure you'd see the stock price dip. Investors spend all their time looking at news reports in their target industry, so I'm sure they'll notice something as big as this.

Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting

#29

Post by wmf »

jrockway wrote: post #8

I doubt any major vendor will do this. First off, they don't want to be locked into selling Microsoft-only machines. If they can't pretend Linux is an option, Microsoft can charge them $1000 for a Windows license and there's nothing they can do about it. If they have Linux hanging over Microsoft's head, though, they'll get better pricing on Windows. (Think this won't happen? It already did with XP on netbooks. When M…

they don't want to be locked into selling Microsoft-only machines.

True to some extent, but they can always create Linux models that just don't include the MS public key.

the need for booting non-standard Windows images will save us.

Customized Windows images should have the same signature since the signed components (kernel, drivers, etc.) will be the same.

the all-important server market

This either doesn't apply to servers or the vendors will just create Linux models.

If Intel chips stop booting Linux

To be clear, that is not what we're talking about. This is an optional firmware feature (and I assume it will apply to all logoed PCs regardless of processor type).

Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting

#30

Post by dpark »

jrockway wrote: post #8

I doubt any major vendor will do this. First off, they don't want to be locked into selling Microsoft-only machines. If they can't pretend Linux is an option, Microsoft can charge them $1000 for a Windows license and there's nothing they can do about it. If they have Linux hanging over Microsoft's head, though, they'll get better pricing on Windows. (Think this won't happen? It already did with XP on netbooks. When M…

> If that doesn't work, the need for booting non-standard Windows images will save us. I've never worked for any company that ran a stock Windows install -- everyone rolls their own. If new machines won't boot this image, guess what, that new machine is bought from some vendor that doesn't do this to them.

That's not how this works. It doesn't expect that the entire OS install is signed. It expects that the kernel is signed. "Non-standard" Windows installs don't generally futz with the Kernel. If you work for a company that uses a hacked kernel internally, please let me know, so I can make sure I'm not invested.

> Nobody uses Windows as a server OS

Microsoft's server product(along with its related tools and products) is massively successful. The Internet darlings may not run Windows Server, but many, many companies do.

> If, say, Samsung says "our hardware will only run Windows", then they won't be manufacturing Android phones or Chromebooks anymore.

Why would anyone do that? Even if Samsung sold some hardware that was locked down to only Windows, why would they suddenly stop selling other hardware? There's just no point. They already sell devices that are effectively locked down to Android, but that doesn't preclude them continuing to sell Windows laptops.

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