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The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

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Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#21

Post by jordanpg »

ilamont wrote: post #2

Examples include Isaac Asimov’s robots, Robert Heinlein’s rocket ships, and William Gibson’s cyberspace.” He called these examples hieroglyphs: clear, inspiring symbols of what a better future might hold. William Gibson writing about a better future? That's not what I saw in his books, but great science fiction doesn't have to portray a better future. In my opinion, great science fiction doesn't have to follow dogma,…

I think you missed the point of the Weir mention. The author wasn't taking a swipe at Weir (in the way that many sci-fi snobs do). He was discussing Weir in the taxonomy of Project Hieroglyph, which is clear from the full context:

> In fact, The Martian was so modest that it may not have qualified as sci-fi in the first place. Cory Doctorow, another one of Stephenson’s Hieroglyph collaborators, uses the term “design fiction” to refer to works like Weir’s. But whatever you call it, The Martian’s space-hackery certainly couldn’t have inspired anyone “to develop new technologies and implement them on a heroic scale.”

The author is saying that Weir's Martian lacks a hieroglyph, which is to say that its problems are too narrow, too local, too provincial. It's missing inspiration on a "heroic scale."

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#22

Post by unchocked »

I try to read these polemics to uncover the seams of my own techno-optimistic worldview.

This one, I think, centers around the idea that technological solutions don’t solve social problems (which has merit).

But at least superficially, I don’t understand why the author polemicizes against technological solutions for technological problems, and seems to argue that (unspecified) social solutions for technological problems are more appropriate.

On a deeper level, and more subjectively, I suspect that polemics like these are motivated by frustration about our relative powerlessness over social problems, as compared to the effectiveness of solving technological problems with technology.

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#23

Post by smnrchrds »

kaycebasques wrote: post #3
ilamont wrote: post #2

Examples include Isaac Asimov’s robots, Robert Heinlein’s rocket ships, and William Gibson’s cyberspace.” He called these examples hieroglyphs: clear, inspiring symbols of what a better future might hold. William Gibson writing about a better future? That's not what I saw in his books, but great science fiction doesn't have to portray a better future. In my opinion, great science fiction doesn't have to follow dogma,…

> William Gibson writing about a better future? That's not what I saw in his books Neuromancer definitely wasn't optimistic, but the description of the software agents (can't remember the terms Gibson used) were so cool that I would interpret it as a kind of inspiration (the cousin of optimism). I'm talking about how the main character would be making his way through cyberspace and he would see the other programs, pe…

Relevant comic: https://www.butajape.com/comic/sci-fi-predictions/

Make sure you read the description too.

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#24

Post by AlwaysRock »

Did anyone else read this article and still not really get the point the author is trying to make? Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed or finished a sci fi novel last night that ended with a little too much like Bruce Willis Saves The Day.

Stephenson, who he calls out, actually worked at Blue Origin in the early days trying to come up with and design alternative fuel/rocket ideas. Did they work? No. But he's utterly practical with his idea of what Sci Fi ideas actually get manifested into our world. It's the ones that will make someone enough money for it to be worth it.

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#25

Post by ilamont »

jordanpg wrote: post #21
ilamont wrote: post #2

Examples include Isaac Asimov’s robots, Robert Heinlein’s rocket ships, and William Gibson’s cyberspace.” He called these examples hieroglyphs: clear, inspiring symbols of what a better future might hold. William Gibson writing about a better future? That's not what I saw in his books, but great science fiction doesn't have to portray a better future. In my opinion, great science fiction doesn't have to follow dogma,…

I think you missed the point of the Weir mention. The author wasn't taking a swipe at Weir (in the way that many sci-fi snobs do). He was discussing Weir in the taxonomy of Project Hieroglyph, which is clear from the full context: > In fact, The Martian was so modest that it may not have qualified as sci-fi in the first place. Cory Doctorow, another one of Stephenson’s Hieroglyph collaborators, uses the term “design…

> He was discussing Weir in the taxonomy of Project Hieroglyph, which is clear from the full context

I'm reading it as Weir's work doesn't count as science fiction, which goes beyond following Project Hieroglyph's rules:

In fact, The Martian was so modest that it may not have qualified as sci-fi in the first place. Cory Doctorow, another one of Stephenson’s Hieroglyph collaborators, uses the term “design fiction” to refer to works like Weir’s.

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#26

Post by dharmaturtle »

jordanpg wrote: post #21
ilamont wrote: post #2

Examples include Isaac Asimov’s robots, Robert Heinlein’s rocket ships, and William Gibson’s cyberspace.” He called these examples hieroglyphs: clear, inspiring symbols of what a better future might hold. William Gibson writing about a better future? That's not what I saw in his books, but great science fiction doesn't have to portray a better future. In my opinion, great science fiction doesn't have to follow dogma,…

I think you missed the point of the Weir mention. The author wasn't taking a swipe at Weir (in the way that many sci-fi snobs do). He was discussing Weir in the taxonomy of Project Hieroglyph, which is clear from the full context: > In fact, The Martian was so modest that it may not have qualified as sci-fi in the first place. Cory Doctorow, another one of Stephenson’s Hieroglyph collaborators, uses the term “design…

Agriculture on a "heroic scale" allowed civilizations to develop.

I submit that Martian botany will the the start of "space farming on a heroic scale" - and that The Martian will inspire future generations.

As an aside, I dislike the implication that a personal story with only one life on the line is not heroic. I'm tired of world ending stakes in stories.

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#27

Post by DoneWithAllThat »

I read this as the author viewing media through a very modern (and deformed) lens: that books, TVs and movies should have a message and that message should be correct and proper for the current dogma. The idea of a story not conveying some kind of appropriate (usually left wing) morality is totally alien to them. I’ve seen this more and more - younger people seeing older movies like Scott Pilgrim (to take an example) and seem alternately aghast or baffled that the protagonist isn’t a paragon of politically correct virtue. “What am I supposed to take away from this?” is the typical refrain (or a variant of it). They’re utterly confused by the idea of characters not conforming to political and ideological stereotypes. It’s caused this winnowing of acceptable tropes and themes and frankly made most modern media extremely frustrating to consume.

You can really see it starkly when you consume non-western media. Not that other cultures don’t have their own tropes and orthodoxy, but the narrow range of the western codex becomes starkly apparent. You keep subconsciously expecting characters or stories to fall into their western political ruts and it’s startling when they don’t.

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#28

Post by octopoc »

at_a_remove wrote: post #15
kaycebasques wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> William Gibson writing about a better future? That's not what I saw in his books Neuromancer definitely wasn't optimistic, but the description of the software agents (can't remember the terms Gibson used) were so cool that I would interpret it as a kind of inspiration (the cousin of optimism). I'm talking about how the main character would be making his way through cyberspace and he would see the other programs, pe…

It is more than bizarre, it is a little scary. Looking through the various dystopian fics, films, whatever, they all started as someone's utopia. Somebody out there thought this was a great idea. And like most great ideas you will have disagreement, which must be dealt with, because it's a great idea . Can't have the nay-saying. And the transformation to dystopia begins. Just as an example from the article, a lot of…

> Looking through the various dystopian fics, films, whatever, they all started as someone's utopia.

Exactly! This is always what happens when people have more loyalty to an ideology than to humans.

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#29

Post by hideo »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #24

Did anyone else read this article and still not really get the point the author is trying to make? Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed or finished a sci fi novel last night that ended with a little too much like Bruce Willis Saves The Day. Stephenson, who he calls out, actually worked at Blue Origin in the early days trying to come up with and design alternative fuel/rocket ideas. Did they work?…

Yeah I re-read it 3-something times and I have no idea what's going on here. Here's what I took away

- Most Sci Fi is too dystopian

- Project Heiroglyph forced authors to be techno optimist and it didn't go anywhere

- Authors must deal with human malfeasance (isn't that just the dystopian fiction that he is against)

- ???

- Profit?

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