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Meditation and the Unconscious

thereader.mitpress.mit.edu

21–30 of 122 posts

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#21

Makes me think of how Marvin Minsky thought Meditation was a bad thing.

I've always found it interesting that many meditation techniques involve "emptying the mind" or "clearing the mind" of thought. While practicing concentration on a single point of focus definitely seems useful for strengthening the mind, I'm not sure that practicing a state of being completely devoid of thought is necessarily healthy. I would rather meditate on being full of thought, and thinking of many things simul…

Concentration meditation is in large part an exercise in the ability to focus, not on emptying the mind per se, though some traditions will use exercises that expect it.

But concentration meditation is not an end in itself, but generally a tool to aid in meditating on other things, including on thoughts ariaing on your mind, bodily impulses, emotion and others.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#22

Makes me think of how Marvin Minsky thought Meditation was a bad thing.

I've always found it interesting that many meditation techniques involve "emptying the mind" or "clearing the mind" of thought. While practicing concentration on a single point of focus definitely seems useful for strengthening the mind, I'm not sure that practicing a state of being completely devoid of thought is necessarily healthy. I would rather meditate on being full of thought, and thinking of many things simul…

I think a Buddhist might argue that one's mind is a high distraction environment.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#23

“One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. The latter procedure, however, is disagreeable and therefore not popular.” -C.G. Jung

I am in agreement with Jung; yet not to only make darkness conscious, but by beholding it with love and presence...

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meditation is a tool that cuts both ways. It must be used, like any tool, with respect and careful practice. The Buddha analogized it to a poisonous viper in the wrong hands. I'll give you one example from my own practice. When I learned the Mahasi style of vipassana (mindfulness) meditation, which has you note sense objects as they arise, I noted everything , including conversation. I noted "hearing, hearing, hearin…

Vipassana is insight meditation, which is generally contrasted with mindfulness (known as 'samatha'). "Mindfulness" is generally thought of as a prerequisite to insight, though an especially committed vipassana practitioner might well develop both concurrently. (The aforementioned 'insight' is of course meant as insight into the three core features of phenomenology, viz. the impermanence of subjective states, the all…

Mindfulness meditation is a term we use to describe the practices that certain famous/influential western meditation practitioners developed after coming back from the mostly theravada countries that they went to to learn meditation practices from the monks there in the 50-70s. Generally speaking, those practices were vipassana/insight practices, and so mindfulness practices are in essence, or at least are modified vipassana techniques. Mindfulness is the translation we tend to use for the Pali `sati`, mindfulness techniques tend to develop this quality of `sati`, which is a kind of re-contextualisation of your perception from "I am having an experience" to "an experience is happening within conscious awareness" in a direct, first person way. And yeah, the development of sati, along with other helpful factors, can help to gain insight, which is basically the way the mind looks at itself and conceptualises its own experience, in a kind of self-reflective way, and what it means to relax and tighten the tension that holding the mind in that way causes.

In these western teachings and in the theravadan writings, usually insight is contrasted with "concentration", which is `samatha`, which is a kind of effortless concentration on one thing. Focusing solely on the sensations of the breath at a point in your body is one way of doing samatha, or imagining a complex mental image (of, say, a mandala) or a simple image like a white circle. This kind of meditation is about dropping your attachment to everything except this one thing, which creates a strong attachment to that thing to the exclusion of all else, and this is often pleasurable because you're both strongly mentally attached to that sensation and it's a sensation that keeps happening at high "volume", which is very rewarding. With this you can enter states called `jhana` (which is actually pretty much the only word in early buddhism for "meditation", and through the spread of Buddhism, linguistically became "chan" in China, "zen" in Japan, and "seon" in Korea, "thien" in Vietnam...)

The reason that they are contrasted is because mindfulness practices tend to go the other way and include a larger scope of what you are including in your attention, for example mentally labelling what senses are being activated from moment to moment, or the sensations of the body/breath in a more wholesome way without blocking out external stimuli, but developing very strong clarity on the momentary aspects of those sensations and experiences, sort of applying a "samatha" style concentration to analysing the sensations as the "three core features" you described.

Both the approaches tend to suppress the "hindrances" in the mind that prevent jhana and insight. These are recurring thoughts and emotions that trouble you and stop this kind of mental configuration from happening in a stable way. The techniques use up mental and perceptual "bandwidth" in holding the mind in a way so that attention/awareness and holding on/letting go are balanced on whatever the object of meditation is. By developing samatha or sati, or a some of both mixed together, you can enter interesting and unusual states of consciousness that are pleasant, weird, intriguing, peaceful- that can be used as a point of inquiry into why the mind is grasping at things in certain ways and what the result of that grasping is doing to it.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#26

Makes me think of how Marvin Minsky thought Meditation was a bad thing.

I've always found it interesting that many meditation techniques involve "emptying the mind" or "clearing the mind" of thought. While practicing concentration on a single point of focus definitely seems useful for strengthening the mind, I'm not sure that practicing a state of being completely devoid of thought is necessarily healthy. I would rather meditate on being full of thought, and thinking of many things simul…

Maybe this?

From “Mindfulness” by Domyo Sater Burk © 2014 by Penguin Group (USA) isbn 978-1-61564-619-7

Expansive awareness meditation can end up getting you to the same place concentration meditation does (a still, present mind), but by using a different path…. You may find [it] works much better for you…. It just seems to depend on the way your mind works.

[Y]ou try to open your awareness to everything. Imagine you’re waiting for some unusual or miraculous event, but you don’t know which of your senses you’ll perceive it with. Will it be a sound? Will it be a sight? Will it be a thought? Whenever you find your mind has wandered, instead of bringing it back to an object, you open your awareness back up. Any time you latch on to a train of thought or a particular sensation, you’re also closing down your awareness of other things. By opening your awareness as wide as you can, you’re returning to mindfulness of the present, just as you would by turning your attention back to an object of concentration.

MINDFUL EXERCISE Sit, stand, or lie down and keep your eyes open. Widen your gaze, including what’s to the sides and above and below in your peripheral vision. (This will help keep you from getting distracted by particular things you can see.) Now watch your visual field as if it’s a movie—a slow-moving movie, perhaps, but one of those quiet, visually rich, artistic ones. Just keep watching. When you stop because you have gotten caught up in thinking, note that you have tuned out the “movie” because it’s boring, or because you think you know what’s going to happen next. Ask yourself, “When I really stop to look, is anything truly boring? Do I really know what’s going to happen next?”

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#27

Makes me think of how Marvin Minsky thought Meditation was a bad thing.

I've always found it interesting that many meditation techniques involve "emptying the mind" or "clearing the mind" of thought. While practicing concentration on a single point of focus definitely seems useful for strengthening the mind, I'm not sure that practicing a state of being completely devoid of thought is necessarily healthy. I would rather meditate on being full of thought, and thinking of many things simul…

Well, if you want to meditate on multi-layered themes, there's always the wild fox koan [1].

As others have noted, concentration in and of itself is not all of what meditation is. There are so many different sorts of practice traditions. In some practices there isn't an object of concentration at all, for instance in Mahamudra's teaching of samatha [2].

And you're certainly right that meditation can lead to unhealthy mental states, which is why it's important to work with a teacher or a practice tradition.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_fox_koan

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahamudra#%C5%9Aamatha

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#28

“One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. The latter procedure, however, is disagreeable and therefore not popular.” -C.G. Jung

Context? I have no idea what this quote is trying to say.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#29

Makes me think of how Marvin Minsky thought Meditation was a bad thing.

This is a valid concern. Most likely meditation doesn't do anything at all. If you trust "Western Research", e.g. reading "Altered Traits", it either did nothing, or changes were noticeable after years. Concrete example - the author (or one of) practice meditation for 2 years to reduce his blood pressure and then ended up just taking some pills for it.

So it does nothing (likely), it's good for you, or it's bad for you. There is nothing saying that single-point focus doesn't just kill lateral thinking. It's not like it's working memory training or anything of the sort.

Before you downvote me - ask yourself if you really know of any PROVEN benefit of meditation.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#30

“One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. The latter procedure, however, is disagreeable and therefore not popular.” -C.G. Jung

Context? I have no idea what this quote is trying to say.

I think, it implies that following an ideal (light) is futile, only seeing what is (darkness) works.

The most popular religion in the world is based on fall from grace, original sin that we must attone for to become pure again. Alternative is that there is no going back and no perfect world or state of mind ahead, only the reality, which is sometimes dirty and messy and for many of us hard to see clearly.

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