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Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

newyorker.com

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Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#21

Post by SavantIdiot »

lanfeust6 wrote: post #10
goatsneez wrote: post #2

I big miss at a humour in my view. Although, in general Im puzzled by the cliche portrayal of A.R.'s views as somewhat cold or inhumane. Though I did not read all her essays and works, Im familiar with the several ones which warrant no such trivialized characterization. On the contrary, she explicitly and implicitly said that "...reason and emotions are not contradictory or in opposition. It is only when we do not un…

Had read AR as a teen and while I have strong disagreements I do notice a pattern of shallow understanding when she's being discussed in Liberal sphere. It's easier for leftists to attack her character than critique her ideas in good faith (and it's not like there's a lack of kookiness to address). The fringe vocal groups (who leave nothing untouched) also reserve similar treatment for some rationalists, which tells…

You're doing the same thing you are criticizing your straw-person leftists as doing.

As a leftist, it is quite easy to critique her ideas in good faith: she disdains anyone who doesn't confirm to her idea of "productive", abhors the poor, and deifies the upper class as being the ultimate model of humanity. And that's not even being reductive.

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#22

Post by rchaud »

horns4lyfe wrote: post #8
steelstraw wrote: post #6

Relevant comment from John Carmack a couple weeks ago: Atlas Shrugged popped up in a trend, reminding me of the remarkable level of vitriol against it. It is obviously grinding an anti-collectivist axe, and it can fairly be called cartoonish, but if you can't see its archetypes in the world around you, you aren't paying attention. I can easily understand people not liking the book, but the level of loathing that some…

Most writers at the New Yorker are going to be the product of expensive liberal arts educations, and in those circles making fun of a strawman a of someone like Ayn Rand is as in-group as it gets. This is just social validation/click-seeking for a writer.

One day they'll be collecting Social Security. Just like Ayn Rand. Perhaps they're not so different after all.

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#23

Post by hindsightbias »

steelstraw wrote: post #6

Relevant comment from John Carmack a couple weeks ago: Atlas Shrugged popped up in a trend, reminding me of the remarkable level of vitriol against it. It is obviously grinding an anti-collectivist axe, and it can fairly be called cartoonish, but if you can't see its archetypes in the world around you, you aren't paying attention. I can easily understand people not liking the book, but the level of loathing that some…

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

[Kung Fu Monkey -- Ephemera, blog post, March 19, 2009]”

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#24

Post by fullshark »

gspencley wrote: post #18
fullshark wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I will say Ayn Rand's philosophy doesn't really have any room for parents/children in it, people are just fully realized individuals suddenly and without any childhood/adolescence/schooling. None of her characters have any interest in raising children. Children are dependents, and parents (or the state if you want to go that route) need to raise them if you want a society to continue, it's a pretty huge blind…

"I will say Ayn Rand's philosophy doesn't really have any room for parents/children in it," That sentence misses the very definition of philosophy and its purpose. It is true that Ayn Rand never had children and didn't talk much about parenting (although she did in various Q&A and also spoke about education - was very fond of Montessori for example), but that doesn't mean that Objectivism, which is Ayn Rand's philoso…

To be reductive, I kind of feel like there's two Ayn Rands, or at least she's discussed in two contexts: One is as a philosopher (Fountainhead), and other is as a political philosopher (Atlas Shrugged, Anthem). The focus recently has been on the latter, as people like Paul Ryan and Ted Cruz would mention their affinity for Atlas Shrugged as a justification for shrinking the role of the federal gov't. This piece is clearly written in response to that, and most of the recent discussion of her has been re: what she thinks the role of the gov't should be in people's lives, or in a market economy.

You are talking about the former, and I think you can make the case that raising a child can be substituted in for "designing a building" like in the Fountainhead as a responsibility someone chooses, but I don't think it's so clean as usually raising a child involves a second person (and therefore compromise), as well as the child themselves who has to have some autonomy over their lives. This dynamic is pretty hard to navigate with purely objectivist principles imo as there's three individuals involved including the child who needs to be turned from a ball of emotions into a full fledged adult, and this is ripe for comedy. The OP failed to do so (look at that Muppets Take Manhattan joke, who the hell is laughing at that other someone enjoying a political enemy being mocked?). I think the Simpsons did a pretty good job with their joke.

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#25

Post by [deleted] »

hindsightbias wrote: post #23
steelstraw wrote: post #6

Relevant comment from John Carmack a couple weeks ago: Atlas Shrugged popped up in a trend, reminding me of the remarkable level of vitriol against it. It is obviously grinding an anti-collectivist axe, and it can fairly be called cartoonish, but if you can't see its archetypes in the world around you, you aren't paying attention. I can easily understand people not liking the book, but the level of loathing that some…

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." [Kung Fu Monkey -- Ephemera, blog post, March 19, 2009]”

[deleted]

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#26

Post by slothtrop »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #21
lanfeust6 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had read AR as a teen and while I have strong disagreements I do notice a pattern of shallow understanding when she's being discussed in Liberal sphere. It's easier for leftists to attack her character than critique her ideas in good faith (and it's not like there's a lack of kookiness to address). The fringe vocal groups (who leave nothing untouched) also reserve similar treatment for some rationalists, which tells…

You're doing the same thing you are criticizing your straw-person leftists as doing. As a leftist, it is quite easy to critique her ideas in good faith: she disdains anyone who doesn't confirm to her idea of "productive", abhors the poor, and deifies the upper class as being the ultimate model of humanity. And that's not even being reductive.

> And that's not even being reductive.

It would have to be somewhere near the dartboard to be reductive, this is just a weak projection. You mentioned the ease of criticizing her ideas and in the same breath, completely ignore them. The irony is lost on you.

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#27

Post by mipsi »

steelstraw wrote: post #6

Relevant comment from John Carmack a couple weeks ago: Atlas Shrugged popped up in a trend, reminding me of the remarkable level of vitriol against it. It is obviously grinding an anti-collectivist axe, and it can fairly be called cartoonish, but if you can't see its archetypes in the world around you, you aren't paying attention. I can easily understand people not liking the book, but the level of loathing that some…

Cartoons are an excellent medium for pinpointing archetypes in the world around us. I just missed the cartoon drawings in Atlas Shrugged.

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#28

Post by defaultprimate »

pydry wrote: post #14
steelstraw wrote: post #6

Relevant comment from John Carmack a couple weeks ago: Atlas Shrugged popped up in a trend, reminding me of the remarkable level of vitriol against it. It is obviously grinding an anti-collectivist axe, and it can fairly be called cartoonish, but if you can't see its archetypes in the world around you, you aren't paying attention. I can easily understand people not liking the book, but the level of loathing that some…

>if you can't see its archetypes in the world around you, you aren't paying attention. The archetype of a glorious manager who goes on strike which makes everybody very very sorry they ever doubted them isn't one that I'm super familiar with. I wonder if Carmack has ever looked at a graph of US wealth inequality. Or played Bioshock.

I wonder if you've ever looked at a graph of wealth accumulation of every economic strata in the US, or just inequality. There's nothing wrong with inequality if the poor are getting richer, have more access to resources, and a higher quality of life with time.

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#29

Post by kbelder »

rchaud wrote: post #22
horns4lyfe wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most writers at the New Yorker are going to be the product of expensive liberal arts educations, and in those circles making fun of a strawman a of someone like Ayn Rand is as in-group as it gets. This is just social validation/click-seeking for a writer.

One day they'll be collecting Social Security. Just like Ayn Rand. Perhaps they're not so different after all.

Just as a side note, she didn't condemn collecting social security or other government subsidies. She condemned the existence of the program, but also said it's reasonable to collect benefits since they're taxed from you in the first place.

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#30

Post by baybal2 »

steelstraw wrote: post #6

Relevant comment from John Carmack a couple weeks ago: Atlas Shrugged popped up in a trend, reminding me of the remarkable level of vitriol against it. It is obviously grinding an anti-collectivist axe, and it can fairly be called cartoonish, but if you can't see its archetypes in the world around you, you aren't paying attention. I can easily understand people not liking the book, but the level of loathing that some…

Ayn Rend was a closet communist, besides the obvious point of her living on social security, and food stamps, ideas she voiced were very close to what Leninist communism — bolshevism was, to the point some say she was a communist agent in disguise.

Now, a question to HN: who here actually read Lenin, and works of his original party mates?

A picture far from a hippie paradise they draw. The Strong subjugate the Weak through natural right, and those weak are not your poor workers, but your idle intellectuals, nobility, aristocrats, social democrats, and much of white collar workforce, which would've included you.

Muscular proletarians band together to build a dictatorial regime, and go crushing "weakling classes" just because they can.

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