Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

More people died of superbacteria in 2019 than HIV or malaria, study suggests

edition.cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 32 posts

Re: More people died of superbacteria in 2019 than HIV or malaria, study suggests

#21

Post by rob74 »

cstross wrote: post #14
zerr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why a phage therapy is not widespread?

1. "Not invented here" (western medical practice largely ignored the USSR, where phage treatments were a big thing: journals didn't get translated, treatments didn't get picked up). 2. Not profitable. They were developed in the Soviet bloc hence not patented but it would have invalidated any patent in the west, so there was no lucrative monopoly to pursue. After the collapse of the USSR western antibiotics flooded in…

But fortunately the know-how is still there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Eliava_Institute), and lately there is renewed interest, so let's hope something comes out of it...

Re: More people died of superbacteria in 2019 than HIV or malaria, study suggests

#22

Post by rob74 »

gostsamo wrote: post #13
zerr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why a phage therapy is not widespread?

complex. it is made per bacteria type as far as I know and it does not scale like a chemical compound.

which is good, then you can't "preventively" use it on cattle, pigs, chicken etc. like they do with antibiotics, causing resistant strains to develop. I imagine phage therapy would only be an additional "line of defense" against resistant bacteria, similar to the "reserve antibiotics" (which are however more and more widely used, including for animals, despite their "reserve" status).

Re: More people died of superbacteria in 2019 than HIV or malaria, study suggests

#23

Post by cstross »

amelius wrote: post #16
cstross wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. "Not invented here" (western medical practice largely ignored the USSR, where phage treatments were a big thing: journals didn't get translated, treatments didn't get picked up). 2. Not profitable. They were developed in the Soviet bloc hence not patented but it would have invalidated any patent in the west, so there was no lucrative monopoly to pursue. After the collapse of the USSR western antibiotics flooded in…

How can a technique that requires lab work not be profitable?

Your assumption is that the medical industry is profitable. This is not universally shared.

I am in the UK; we have socialized healthcare here. Lab work is an overhead, not a profit centre.

(Antibiotics can be prescribed instantly on demand by any doctor. Whereas phage treatment requires a sample of the infective agent to be obtained, cultured, then tested against a library of phages. All of which is time-consuming so renders phage treatments only really useful for severe infections causing hospitalization. At least, that was historically the case: rapid DNA sequencers could in principle turn it into something that can be rolled out to GP practices. But this tech didn't exist even a decade ago.)

Re: More people died of superbacteria in 2019 than HIV or malaria, study suggests

#24

Post by artyomxyz »

zerr wrote: post #8
legulere wrote: post #3

My hope is that phage therapy can solve the issue of drug-resistant bacteria. Also we really need to get our things together and work against misuse of antibiotics.

Why a phage therapy is not widespread?

It's pretty easy to buy phages in Russia. It is sold in almost any pharmacy, doctors sometimes recommend it, you can check if bacteria sample is sensitive to phage in almost any medical lab.

I even had an experience of treating infection with phages myself, as antibiotics had interactions with my other drugs. It went pretty well.

But in my case, course of treatment with phages is around 100$, while course of treatment with antibiotics is 5-10$.

Re: More people died of superbacteria in 2019 than HIV or malaria, study suggests

#25

Post by MaxBarraclough »

dang wrote: post #20
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HN guidelines ask submissions not to edit the title except for certain narrow exceptions. Also, here's a BBC article on the topic: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60058120

The title was from the cnn.com article. I've changed to that now from https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... - usually the best choice for studies like this is to link to the best third-party article and link to the paper in the thread.

Got it, thanks.

Re: More people died of superbacteria in 2019 than HIV or malaria, study suggests

#26

Post by greatpatton »

b112 wrote: post #15
pshirshov wrote: post #12

Well. There are two old St.Aureus vaccines which, in combination, allowed me to eradicate MRSA which I got during a hospital stay. One these vaccines was created long time ago in USSR for veterinary workers, another one - to treat skin infections in babies. Both are still produced and available though most of the doctors are not aware of them. Both, of course, were never tested in proper trials. Not like anyone cares…

Interesting. I wonder on the issues, efficacy, etc. TB vaccine is troublesome and not that effective, to the point that some debate it should not be used, tetanus seems wildly successful. (These are the only other bacteria vaccines I know of)

They are many bacterial vaccine out there against pneumococcal, meningococcal, typhoid fever, cholera, haemophilus influenzae type B etc.

Re: More people died of superbacteria in 2019 than HIV or malaria, study suggests

#27

Post by yawnxyz »

cstross wrote: post #14
zerr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why a phage therapy is not widespread?

1. "Not invented here" (western medical practice largely ignored the USSR, where phage treatments were a big thing: journals didn't get translated, treatments didn't get picked up). 2. Not profitable. They were developed in the Soviet bloc hence not patented but it would have invalidated any patent in the west, so there was no lucrative monopoly to pursue. After the collapse of the USSR western antibiotics flooded in…

It could potentially work under Pharmacopeia / Value-based healthcare model, and as a service it's less like a drug and more like a "process"; more like surgery, less like a pill. "Surgery wouldn't work under the pharmaceutical industry either"

We're working with the Australian government to make this happen: https://www.westmeadinstitute.org.au/news-and-events/2021/we...

The difference we have now vs. 80 years ago Soviet Russia, is that we have tools that speed up lab work and the pipeline of "finding/getting/checking/manufacturing/using" the right phage for the right infection.

It's still going to be mighty difficult, though. And not sure if the economics really would make sense, but still — do the economics of surgery make sense? (I actually don't know the answer to that)

Re: More people died of superbacteria in 2019 than HIV or malaria, study suggests

#28

Post by [deleted] »

mschuster91 wrote: post #7
legulere wrote: post #3

My hope is that phage therapy can solve the issue of drug-resistant bacteria. Also we really need to get our things together and work against misuse of antibiotics.

> Also we really need to get our things together and work against misuse of antibiotics. Too late for that, we already have the superbugs. Not to say that reducing antibiotic usage in farms is not worth the effort (because it is), but we need to ramp up investment in basic R&D for antibiotics again - there is almost none of that any more since it is extremely cost-intensive and the medications are low-revenue [1]. ET…

[deleted]

Re: More people died of superbacteria in 2019 than HIV or malaria, study suggests

#29

Post by Guessnotgauss »

legulere wrote: post #3

My hope is that phage therapy can solve the issue of drug-resistant bacteria. Also we really need to get our things together and work against misuse of antibiotics.

We should start with cattle and livestock in deveolping nations like India. Farmers abuse antibiotics the most.

Re: More people died of superbacteria in 2019 than HIV or malaria, study suggests

#30

Post by mrguyorama »

ErikVandeWater wrote: post #17
patall wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afaik, one problem is that the health agencies can only do so much. Most antibiotics and antibiotics misuse happens in agriculture where a totally different agency is responsible. Yes, they should foster more research into new drugs, but the main challenge remains prophylactic animal treatment.

It seems like a situation where hospitals could be designed in such a way to reduce the likelihood of creating 'superbacteria.' Certainly some must be better than others? They could also address society generally having poor health - If the CDC pounded the table about unhealthy foods/the obesity epidemic I'm sure it could move the needle in some way. Addressing the obesity epidemic would be killing 100+ birds with on…

Well now pretty much half of the country refuses anything the CDC says.
Post reply on HN