I think there's room for a "battlebots meets online poker" product. Imagine buying your bot a real money budget and setting it loose in a tournament to combat other bots.
How A.I. Conquered Poker
21–30 of 188 posts
Re: How A.I. Conquered Poker
#22Does this mean that online poker is effectively over?
Chess has been "solved" by computers for a long time now, yet the online Chess community is bigger than ever. I don't see why it would be any different for Poker.
Re: How A.I. Conquered Poker
#23Does this mean that online poker is effectively over?
Chess has been "solved" by computers for a long time now, yet the online Chess community is bigger than ever. I don't see why it would be any different for Poker.
Big difference with poker is that its all about money, the game doesnt work if people arent risking something. And if computers are superior, the game breaks down.
Re: How A.I. Conquered Poker
#24I think there's room for a "battlebots meets online poker" product. Imagine buying your bot a real money budget and setting it loose in a tournament to combat other bots.
Isn't that just algorithmic trading?
Re: How A.I. Conquered Poker
#25Is there any remaining logic game which AI hasn't become superhuman? IIRC Monte Carlo tree search has done wonders in this area.
As far as I know, in Magic: the Gathering, the best bots are far worse than most players. Part of the difficulty is that the rules are so complicated that there are only a couple of complete rules implementations. Beyond that, it's an imperfect information game with far more actions per game than poker, so optimal-solver techniques haven't seen success.
Have people tried using GPT-3 for this?
Re: How A.I. Conquered Poker
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
How perfect is the play that piosolver calculates? Do you make any simplifying assumptions? I noticed in the article that piosolver can incorporate a mixed strategy with multiple bet sizes. Pretty neat, is that a recent feature? As I rememember it, a few years back people would discuss what the optimal bet size was in various situations with the implicit assumption that there is just one.
Adding multiple betsizes was one of the first features we added in 2015 - so not very recent, no. The one true correct bet size is a seducing idea but that just doesn't exist for most situations. You can try finding the best one with the assumption you can only use one but it's not the best idea in my opinion. Main reasons are that that's the sizing most people will be most ready to play against and EV difference bet…
[deleted]
Re: How A.I. Conquered Poker
#27But it hasn't conquered it! I kept searching the article for some new recent breakthrough that I've missed but it's not there. Yes, solvers like Pio have been around for years and limit holdem has been essentially solved for a while but nobody plays limit holdem anyway.
The two most popular games (no-limit Texas holdem and pot-limit Omaha) are still unsolved.
Re: How A.I. Conquered Poker
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Chess has been "solved" by computers for a long time now, yet the online Chess community is bigger than ever. I don't see why it would be any different for Poker.
Big difference with poker is that its all about money, the game doesnt work if people arent risking something. And if computers are superior, the game breaks down.
You are worried that people will cheat in online poker, or what?
For poker, people can still play face to face, and it being a game of mixed strategies means it's probably a lot less important that poker bots are better than people than in chess. Top chess players use the computers to set up preparation bombs on their opponents, with rebuttals to moves for specific positions created by the computers. That doesn't work in a game of imperfect information and mixed strategies.
Re: How A.I. Conquered Poker
#29Does this mean that online poker is effectively over?
It's kind of dead-ish because there aren't big edges and most people who play online are decent enough. Online poker has been deteriorating for years (with maybe a small uptick due to the pandemic). But this article could have been written a few years ago, there's nothing new in it.
Re: How A.I. Conquered Poker
#30I think there's room for a "battlebots meets online poker" product. Imagine buying your bot a real money budget and setting it loose in a tournament to combat other bots.
Online poker has already been evolving in this direction. Any serious player who plays online will use player assistance tools (such as PIOsolver). Top level poker AI such as Pluribus has already proven that it can hold its own and beat the best online players such as linuslove. It is well known that online poker sites are full of poker bots now. There are programs to help users try to tell if they are playing against a bot by seeing how fast it reacts on each hand, for example if it always takes a fixed amount of time on each hand or if there is a pattern.