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PyFlow – Visual scripting framework for Python – NodeRED alternative?

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Re: PyFlow – Visual scripting framework for Python – NodeRED alternative?

#21

Post by flarg »

akitzmiller wrote: post #15

For something like this to be successful, I think it has to have some kind of domain focus. I've been working in bioinformatics-adjacent jobs for the last couple decades and I've seen things like this get used when there were a lot of integrated, domain-specific tools. Even then, the users were a curious slice of the population that could think like a programmer, but had not bothered to learn a language. It also has…

I work in the software side of the same field and visual flow programming tools like this help bioinformatics and scientists visualise analytics code bases, but they're not sold well to customers. Somehow the teams that sell these products still think in terms of low code or data science, when they probably should be speaking in terms of translational medicine

Re: PyFlow – Visual scripting framework for Python – NodeRED alternative?

#22

Post by jonnydubowsky »

erwincoumans wrote: post #4

It looks nice. If UI performance is a concern, one could move the GUI part to C++ and do some quick pybind11 Python bindings for better performance. I've used this C++ ImGui node editor with similar features for some hacky synthesizer gui using this library: https://github.com/thedmd/imgui-node-editor

Sounds really cool! I'd love to check out what you made, if you are interested in sharing?

Re: PyFlow – Visual scripting framework for Python – NodeRED alternative?

#23

Post by Rygian »

punnerud wrote: post #11
pydry wrote: post #10

Is it just me or are these things harder to write, read, understand and modify than plain old code?

Like comparing Word to Latex. Latex is faster when you know it.

Scientific literature seems to disagree with this statement: "An Efficiency Comparison of Document Preparation Systems Used in Academic Research and Development" [1]

For example, amount of written text was higher among Word novices than among LaTeX experts, with overall less mistakes. The only category where LaTeX users produced more content than Word users was equation text, and even in that case, authors suggest that the difference in productivity between Word experts and LaTeX experts does not differ significantly.

Disclaimer: I like LaTeX a lot.

[1] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

Re: PyFlow – Visual scripting framework for Python – NodeRED alternative?

#24

Post by signalblur »

nyellin wrote: post #9

Very cool. We're designing an open source automations engine for Kubernetes ("Zapier/IFTTT for devops") and have thought about adding a UI for automating stuff visually. So far, simple YAML configurations have won out and we're still debating the benefits of a UI. Does anyone have experience using tools like this at scale or for technical domains? (E.g. devops.) Would love to hear a convincing case why a UI is better…

Heyo! I used to do a bunch of work for a major SOAR player. I think the biggest benefit to tools like this is that it greatly reduces complexity and barrier to entry into automating various tasks allowing the SME’s that may not know how to program, to automate away their pain points with less risk of things being lost in transition while communicating with developers who may not be.

I know yaml isn’t difficult per se, but being able to visualize it can be beneficial for those that don’t normally think programmatically.

Also bonus points - the diagrams from the flows make great process diagrams for your documentation.

Re: PyFlow – Visual scripting framework for Python – NodeRED alternative?

#25

Post by erwincoumans »

jonnydubowsky wrote: post #22
erwincoumans wrote: post #4

It looks nice. If UI performance is a concern, one could move the GUI part to C++ and do some quick pybind11 Python bindings for better performance. I've used this C++ ImGui node editor with similar features for some hacky synthesizer gui using this library: https://github.com/thedmd/imgui-node-editor

Sounds really cool! I'd love to check out what you made, if you are interested in sharing?

Nothing special, it is a synth interface for the Korg Wavestate. I reverse engineered the synth protocol using Wireshark, it uses Protobuf data over some zmq. The Korg Wavestate has a Raspberry Pi compute module, so I blanked the root password as well with a compute module SDK. See the visual gui here: https://youtu.be/LH4qDhW8TAQ?t=55

Re: PyFlow – Visual scripting framework for Python – NodeRED alternative?

#26

Post by obowersa »

nyellin wrote: post #9

Very cool. We're designing an open source automations engine for Kubernetes ("Zapier/IFTTT for devops") and have thought about adding a UI for automating stuff visually. So far, simple YAML configurations have won out and we're still debating the benefits of a UI. Does anyone have experience using tools like this at scale or for technical domains? (E.g. devops.) Would love to hear a convincing case why a UI is better…

We ended up using Puppet Relay quite a bit, which is sort of a halfway house between the two ( visual editor, but yaml backed with low code instead of no code).

The main advantage from my side was being able to get adoption from a wider group of people. This included both very junior technical folk who were able to take on more complex tasks than they would have been able to otherwise, and non technical folk who found starting with the UI a lot less intimidating.

Eventually, almost everyone has gravitated to using YAML over time but I don't think I'd of seen the adoption internally that we had without the UI component.

Mileage will vary though. If we had been at a more technically mature place when adopting relay, then I reckon the UI would have seen a lot less use.

Re: PyFlow – Visual scripting framework for Python – NodeRED alternative?

#28

Post by nooorofe »

flarg wrote: post #21
akitzmiller wrote: post #15

For something like this to be successful, I think it has to have some kind of domain focus. I've been working in bioinformatics-adjacent jobs for the last couple decades and I've seen things like this get used when there were a lot of integrated, domain-specific tools. Even then, the users were a curious slice of the population that could think like a programmer, but had not bothered to learn a language. It also has…

I work in the software side of the same field and visual flow programming tools like this help bioinformatics and scientists visualise analytics code bases, but they're not sold well to customers. Somehow the teams that sell these products still think in terms of low code or data science, when they probably should be speaking in terms of translational medicine

Talend is sold sort of well

(ex. https://help.talend.com/r/mjoDghHoMPI0yuyZ83a13Q/YYVSsDiyJ3v...)

Re: PyFlow – Visual scripting framework for Python – NodeRED alternative?

#30

Post by madisonmay »

daenz wrote: post #29
snidane wrote: post #27

Scripts from another dimension, now in Python. https://scriptsofanotherdimension.tumblr.com/

These kinds of visual programming systems always seem to degrade into spaghetti hell, don't they?

I suppose so, but perhaps trying to prevent the spaghettification has some positive benefits in terms of DRY + code structure.
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