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Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

muted.io

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Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#21

Post by yesenadam »

noslenwerdna wrote: post #13
yesenadam wrote: post #9

First thing I clicked on was C minor... which showed me "C minor scale". Problem is.. Is that a thing? I've not heard of "the C minor scale". I don't think it's a thing. (Jazz pianist here) In classical piano as a kid I was taught 2 minor scales - melodic (different going up to coming down) and harmonic. Your "minor scale" corresponds to the melodic minor descending, aka Aeolian mode. (i.e. white piano notes from A u…

They are using the natural minor.

I don't remember ever hearing that term before, but you say it like there's no doubt I'll know what it means. I'm curious - in what tradition did you learn to call it that? (Probably I'm very out of touch)

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#22

Post by zozbot234 »

robbrown451 wrote: post #18
prvc wrote: post #10

I think this makes a simple topic needlessly complex. Only the mnemonic "Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle" might be worth memorizing, and the rest follows easily. Even that can be replaced by "just go up by fifths starting with F".

Strange comment. The site is interactive and allows you to explore a whole lot of music theory. A mnemonic, uhhh... doesn't.

The point is that, if you know the mnemonic (and the surrounding tricks), you can do the exact same exploring by noodling at the keyboard (or the fretboard, for that matter) and be sure to get it right. From there, it's easy to explore other parts of music theory, or to develop one's musical audiation skills.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#23

Post by Tainnor »

yesenadam wrote: post #21
noslenwerdna wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are using the natural minor.

I don't remember ever hearing that term before, but you say it like there's no doubt I'll know what it means. I'm curious - in what tradition did you learn to call it that? (Probably I'm very out of touch)

I don't know much about Jazz music, but I think "natural minor" is a well-understood term among classical musicians.

I think in classical music theory, you really "start" from the natural minor and then the harmonic and melodic scales can be explained in terms of leading tones etc.

Of course, the way classical music (at least anything between Baroque and Romanticism) works is rather different from the way Jazz works.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#24

Post by adrianmonk »

yesenadam wrote: post #21
noslenwerdna wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are using the natural minor.

I don't remember ever hearing that term before, but you say it like there's no doubt I'll know what it means. I'm curious - in what tradition did you learn to call it that? (Probably I'm very out of touch)

Not the person you asked, but I learned the same terms as on wikipedia (natural, melodic, and harmonic minor) in music theory class. I took the class at a public high school in the US. I think my teacher was also the orchestra teacher.

We generally used minor (with no modifiers) to typically mean natural minor, but the teacher also essentially said that minor can mean a lot of things and gets complicated.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#25

Post by airstrike »

yesenadam wrote: post #19
thecatster wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jazz vibraphonist here: pretty sure there isn't a definitive "minor scale," as you say. 4 (3?) of the modes are considered minor, 2 major, and the weird one (dominant 7). So I completely agree it's a bit misleading to just call things "the minor scale." Although I do think I was initially taught the "minor scale" was the natural minor, so that may be where the OPs decision comes from. Edit: Just saw info on the site.…

Hi. I don't remember ever hearing the term "natural minor" either hehe. I've never thought about it too much, but I think improvising on a tune with a C- or C-7 etc chord symbol, like a C minor blues, I (mostly) wouldn't use Ab in the scale but A. Dorian is the modern jazz go-to minor scale, I think. Maybe all the versions of So What/Impressions I've been listening to lately have distorted my ear :-) I'd be more like…

From https://muted.io/c-minor-scale/

> C natural minor scale. the default when we just say 'C minor scale'

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#26

Post by tritones »

Tainnor wrote: post #23
yesenadam wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember ever hearing that term before, but you say it like there's no doubt I'll know what it means. I'm curious - in what tradition did you learn to call it that? (Probably I'm very out of touch)

I don't know much about Jazz music, but I think "natural minor" is a well-understood term among classical musicians. I think in classical music theory, you really "start" from the natural minor and then the harmonic and melodic scales can be explained in terms of leading tones etc. Of course, the way classical music (at least anything between Baroque and Romanticism) works is rather different from the way Jazz works.

Almost all jazz players I've played with and many jazz textbooks use aeolian when referring to natural minor.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#27

Post by robbrown451 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #22
robbrown451 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange comment. The site is interactive and allows you to explore a whole lot of music theory. A mnemonic, uhhh... doesn't.

The point is that, if you know the mnemonic (and the surrounding tricks), you can do the exact same exploring by noodling at the keyboard (or the fretboard, for that matter) and be sure to get it right. From there, it's easy to explore other parts of music theory, or to develop one's musical audiation skills.

If that works for you, ok. I have my keyboard connected to my computer, so I am actually at my keyboard as I use the site. Its still nice that I can click around quickly and hear different chords and scales and such, without having to be held back by my limited piano skills.

Could it be improved if it supported web midi and encouraged you to actually use your keyboard? Maybe. (I actually do web apps that do that) But I'm curious why you can't see its value for what it is, which guides learning rather than just basically saying "figure it out on your own."

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#28

Post by kzrdude »

prvc wrote: post #10

I think this makes a simple topic needlessly complex. Only the mnemonic "Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle" might be worth memorizing, and the rest follows easily. Even that can be replaced by "just go up by fifths starting with F".

I've never had any use for such a mnemonic, it's a needless intermediate

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#29

Post by yesenadam »

airstrike wrote: post #25
yesenadam wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi. I don't remember ever hearing the term "natural minor" either hehe. I've never thought about it too much, but I think improvising on a tune with a C- or C-7 etc chord symbol, like a C minor blues, I (mostly) wouldn't use Ab in the scale but A. Dorian is the modern jazz go-to minor scale, I think. Maybe all the versions of So What/Impressions I've been listening to lately have distorted my ear :-) I'd be more like…

From https://muted.io/c-minor-scale/ > C natural minor scale. the default when we just say 'C minor scale'

I'm not sure why you quote that at me, how you think that will help. Yes, I had a look after my initial click, and saw that. I don't agree that it's the default, that there even is a "default" minor scale, or that that's the most common name for that mode, but I understand I may be in a minority/wrong.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#30

Post by yesenadam »

Tainnor wrote: post #23
yesenadam wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember ever hearing that term before, but you say it like there's no doubt I'll know what it means. I'm curious - in what tradition did you learn to call it that? (Probably I'm very out of touch)

I don't know much about Jazz music, but I think "natural minor" is a well-understood term among classical musicians. I think in classical music theory, you really "start" from the natural minor and then the harmonic and melodic scales can be explained in terms of leading tones etc. Of course, the way classical music (at least anything between Baroque and Romanticism) works is rather different from the way Jazz works.

Ah ok thanks. I learnt of it in classical training, and have since read of it in classical books (e.g. classical music theory, or philosophy of music books concerned mainly with classical music), as the melodic minor descending. But seems I never understood "natural minor" so maybe unconsiously ignored that term or something.
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