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San Francisco Police Illegally Used Surveillance Cameras at George Floyd Protest

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Re: San Francisco Police Illegally Used Surveillance Cameras at George Floyd Protest

#21

Post by zozbot234 »

vmception wrote: post #20
pvaldes wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, who say Latinx? We talk now about Withex, Axians or Blacus?

It is a distinctly a US term There is an articulable enough reason that requires history to know why people would gravitate to that term, now, and why it is not the end all be all of consensus. Basically, somewhat unlike White, Asian and Black, there are no specific phenotypes or looks that encompass people from Latin America. And Latin America doesn't encompass all parts all of the other Americas or the Caribbean, t…

> There is an articulable enough reason that requires history to know why people would gravitate to that term, now, and why it is not the end all be all of consensus.

Are people really "gravitating" to it, though? All we hear about as of late is the Latinx folks who refuse to endorse it. It seems to be mostly the product of a vocal minority, pushing for a sort of cultural appropriation of actual 'Latinx' identities.

> whereas in the US there already is a history of grouping people by race for better or for worse,

Come on, are we seriously arguing that Latin America, of all places, does not have a centuries-long problematic history of grouping people by race? Where do you think all those funny words like "quadroon" and "octoroon" were imported from? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta Latin America is the best existing case study for the reality and long-run societal consequences of structural and institutional racism, far more so than the U.S. !

Re: San Francisco Police Illegally Used Surveillance Cameras at George Floyd Protest

#22

Post by [deleted] »

zozbot234 wrote: post #21
vmception wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a distinctly a US term There is an articulable enough reason that requires history to know why people would gravitate to that term, now, and why it is not the end all be all of consensus. Basically, somewhat unlike White, Asian and Black, there are no specific phenotypes or looks that encompass people from Latin America. And Latin America doesn't encompass all parts all of the other Americas or the Caribbean, t…

> There is an articulable enough reason that requires history to know why people would gravitate to that term, now, and why it is not the end all be all of consensus. Are people really "gravitating" to it, though? All we hear about as of late is the Latinx folks who refuse to endorse it. It seems to be mostly the product of a vocal minority, pushing for a sort of cultural appropriation of actual 'Latinx' identities.…

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco Police Illegally Used Surveillance Cameras at George Floyd Protest

#23

Post by vmception »

zozbot234 wrote: post #21
vmception wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a distinctly a US term There is an articulable enough reason that requires history to know why people would gravitate to that term, now, and why it is not the end all be all of consensus. Basically, somewhat unlike White, Asian and Black, there are no specific phenotypes or looks that encompass people from Latin America. And Latin America doesn't encompass all parts all of the other Americas or the Caribbean, t…

> There is an articulable enough reason that requires history to know why people would gravitate to that term, now, and why it is not the end all be all of consensus. Are people really "gravitating" to it, though? All we hear about as of late is the Latinx folks who refuse to endorse it. It seems to be mostly the product of a vocal minority, pushing for a sort of cultural appropriation of actual 'Latinx' identities.…

> Come on, are we seriously arguing that Latin America, of all places, does not have a centuries-long problematic history of grouping people by race?

Nobody is arguing that, its more about non-"latinx" people in the US not being able to tell and not know and picking a term for people, alongside some of this generation's US residents that have latin american heritage that aren't represented adequately also picking the term, specifically to not perpetuate a caste system.

I'm saying that the folly of the term is that it masquarades as representation of central and south america when its just for some US residents that want amorphous representation.

It doesn't really factor in what the other US residents with the same heritage think, and it doesn't factor in the history of the places they came from. Its not a factor at all.

Re: San Francisco Police Illegally Used Surveillance Cameras at George Floyd Protest

#24

Post by xyzzyz »

rayiner wrote: post #16
s1artibartfast wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better yet is its replacement, "Latin@", which can not be pronounced at all. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/01/07/168818064... >The University of Wisconsin uses it this way in the official name for its Department of Latin@ and Chican@ Studies. Karma Chavez, a professor there, said that the push toward gender neutrality in Spanish has been going on for decades. >OK, but how would you actually say it alou…

> >The University of Wisconsin uses it this way in the official name for its Department of Latin@ and Chican@ Studies. Karma Chavez, a professor there, said that the push toward gender neutrality in Spanish has been going on for decades. I love it when NPR segues to an ethnic studies professor to present the “POC view.” Professor Chavez attained tenure by winning the favor of the University of Wisconsin faculty—which…

> whitest group of people in the country apart from NPR management.

Yeah, Fox News viewers are more racially diverse than NPR audience.

Re: San Francisco Police Illegally Used Surveillance Cameras at George Floyd Protest

#25

Post by s1artibartfast »

xyzzyz wrote: post #24
rayiner wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> >The University of Wisconsin uses it this way in the official name for its Department of Latin@ and Chican@ Studies. Karma Chavez, a professor there, said that the push toward gender neutrality in Spanish has been going on for decades. I love it when NPR segues to an ethnic studies professor to present the “POC view.” Professor Chavez attained tenure by winning the favor of the University of Wisconsin faculty—which…

> whitest group of people in the country apart from NPR management. Yeah, Fox News viewers are more racially diverse than NPR audience.

Not sure if this is sarcasm, but may be true

Re: San Francisco Police Illegally Used Surveillance Cameras at George Floyd Protest

#26

Post by xyzzyz »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #25
xyzzyz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whitest group of people in the country apart from NPR management. Yeah, Fox News viewers are more racially diverse than NPR audience.

Not sure if this is sarcasm, but may be true

No, this is not sarcasm, it is factually true.

Re: San Francisco Police Illegally Used Surveillance Cameras at George Floyd Protest

#27

Post by rurban »

qsmi wrote: post #13
wahern wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m trying to use as neutral language as possible There's a framing problem here, on both sides. Notice how the EFF article starts off talking about how the recently enacted ordinance requires the police to get pre-approval permission to use facial recognition. But all that actually happened was the policed looked at live CCD footage from cameras not on the pre-approved list. The article is framing the debate by ma…

> The ordinance basically presumes a context of continuous, 24 hour surveillance or access thereto. I definitely agree with everything that you wrote but real-time continuous facial recognition is going to be here sooner rather than later. In the context of reforming this ordinance, it makes sense to just assume it's available. To me anyway.

Don't know what you are talking about. Real-time continuous facial recognition at the >98% level is used for about 5.000 crowds already, and they are just ramping up their infrastructures to detect 100.000 simultaneously. A football stadium. Only budgets are the problem, not tech.

Esp. with US government "services", but also Europe and Asia.

Re: San Francisco Police Illegally Used Surveillance Cameras at George Floyd Protest

#28

Post by pvaldes »

vmception wrote: post #20
pvaldes wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, who say Latinx? We talk now about Withex, Axians or Blacus?

It is a distinctly a US term There is an articulable enough reason that requires history to know why people would gravitate to that term, now, and why it is not the end all be all of consensus. Basically, somewhat unlike White, Asian and Black, there are no specific phenotypes or looks that encompass people from Latin America. And Latin America doesn't encompass all parts all of the other Americas or the Caribbean, t…

The correct name is latinos (or latinoamericanos), not latinx. Easier to remember, easier to write, more precise (you can talk about latinos or latinas, with latinx the difference is lost) and everybody was happy with it.

Latinx is clearly derogatory. Is like choosing to call 'japos' to japanese in 2022. Or like choosing to use 'blacky' to refer to blacks in 2022. Is ideological and insulting and speaks volumes of the people using it.

Re: San Francisco Police Illegally Used Surveillance Cameras at George Floyd Protest

#29

Post by rayiner »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #25
xyzzyz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whitest group of people in the country apart from NPR management. Yeah, Fox News viewers are more racially diverse than NPR audience.

Not sure if this is sarcasm, but may be true

Fox’s viewership is older and whiter than NPR’s. But Fox’s popularity means that even Black Democrats are much more likely to watch Fox than to listen to NPR (or read the NYT): https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/2020/03/11/black-and-.... About 1/3 of Black democrats get political news from Fox. Just 10% get political news from NPR.

> One way that black Democrats break out of the media bubble is that roughly a third (36%) get political news from Fox News, which, according to the Center’s survey data, has an audience that leans to the right politically. That contrasts sharply with the 17% of white Democrats who get political news from Fox.

> In using sources for political news, black Democrats are also more inclined to turn to ABC News (53%) and CBS News (46%) than white Democrats (35% and 34%, respectively). White Democrats, however, are much more inclined to get political news from The New York Times (39%) than their black counterparts (12%). The same pattern holds for NPR (43% vs. 10%) and The Washington Post (32% vs. 13%).

Re: San Francisco Police Illegally Used Surveillance Cameras at George Floyd Protest

#30

Post by tptacek »

xyzzyz wrote: post #24
rayiner wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> >The University of Wisconsin uses it this way in the official name for its Department of Latin@ and Chican@ Studies. Karma Chavez, a professor there, said that the push toward gender neutrality in Spanish has been going on for decades. I love it when NPR segues to an ethnic studies professor to present the “POC view.” Professor Chavez attained tenure by winning the favor of the University of Wisconsin faculty—which…

> whitest group of people in the country apart from NPR management. Yeah, Fox News viewers are more racially diverse than NPR audience.

Comparing a cable news channel to a public radio station could get you that result just from a sample size effect, couldn't it?
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