Live data from Hacker News

The medieval habit of ‘two sleeps’

bbc.com

21–30 of 254 posts

Re: The medieval habit of ‘two sleeps’

#21
post #20

Considering this has been in the news for 10 years and pretty much no one does it, not even a weird sub community, we can safely say this is not a legitimate sleeping pattern for humans.

Speak for yourself. I personally do it, it's fantastic. But it does get me a little out of sync with the rest of the world, but with time differences etc. it's not a big deal.

I'm sure a LOT of people do it, and if you turn off your alarm clock and having to get up at x time, and going to sleep at y time, to be 'refreshed' etc, you'd notice the benefit yourself.

Just sleep when you're tired, eat when you're hungry. Trying to have rigid rules around all this does more to damage peoples health than anything else.

Re: The medieval habit of ‘two sleeps’

#24
Just to add to the chorus of modern reasons this might happen, when I was going through pretty bad spinal disc degeneration, I almost always woke up after somewhere between 3-4 hours of sleep. I just couldn't go any longer until I was in too much pain and needed to move about, ice it, take more meds, whatever I could do. That isn't the case any more because of spinal fusion surgery that wasn't an option in the medieval era. I'm sure pretty bad pain you just kind of tried to ignore but could never really get rid of was a common thing back in the day when corrective surgery didn't exist and reliable pain meds didn't either. Alcohol helps, but also disrupts sleep.

Re: The medieval habit of ‘two sleeps’

#25
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not really sure what actually happens when two phalanxes meet. We're also not sure how the Romans swapped lines of men out during combat. Lots of the details about ancient combat just werent written about in detail and its not something we can (ethically) test

How would you unethically test ancient combat tactics? Unless you mean have people try it until it seems to work, in which case, I'm sure you would find many willing LARPers

Replaying something with toy weapons, is not really the same, as fighting for real. But it would probably make for some approximation.

Re: The medieval habit of ‘two sleeps’

#26
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not really sure what actually happens when two phalanxes meet. We're also not sure how the Romans swapped lines of men out during combat. Lots of the details about ancient combat just werent written about in detail and its not something we can (ethically) test

How would you unethically test ancient combat tactics? Unless you mean have people try it until it seems to work, in which case, I'm sure you would find many willing LARPers

I think the issue is that LARPing battle is a poor substitute for what the body can take and how people respond to real pain and damage. We might be getting to the point that we can get somewhat of a foot take on the damage with VR eventually.

Re: The medieval habit of ‘two sleeps’

#27

I believe this theory is largely thought false nowadays, or phrased too strongly at least. I myself have weird sleep cycles. I prefer to stay up into the night and wake up around 12:00, but I vary my sleeping hours by up to 4 hours or so. I go to sleep when I feel like it, and don't feel much discomfort by falling asleep at different times. It leads to weird situations - especially in winter - where I might not see t…

>this theory is largely thought false nowadays, or phrased too strongly at least. What theory? The article doesn't really claim that this kind of sleep is better or more natural, just that it was incredibly common. Is the idea that it was common now thought to be false?

The "it was incredibly common" part is the theory. I don't know if anyone else besides Roger Ekirch supports it, which doesn't mean it's false of course. Our ignorance of things past is gigantic and not helped by the fact that history (and stories) tend to be constantly rewritten.

Re: The medieval habit of ‘two sleeps’

#28
post #20

Considering this has been in the news for 10 years and pretty much no one does it, not even a weird sub community, we can safely say this is not a legitimate sleeping pattern for humans.

Ever since working from home during the pandemic sleeping from like 2am-6am at night and like 4pm-6pm has become pretty common for me. Not sure if that counts as "biphasic" or just a very long nap but definitely seems fine to me.

Re: The medieval habit of ‘two sleeps’

#29

I believe this theory is largely thought false nowadays, or phrased too strongly at least. I myself have weird sleep cycles. I prefer to stay up into the night and wake up around 12:00, but I vary my sleeping hours by up to 4 hours or so. I go to sleep when I feel like it, and don't feel much discomfort by falling asleep at different times. It leads to weird situations - especially in winter - where I might not see t…

>this theory is largely thought false nowadays, or phrased too strongly at least. What theory? The article doesn't really claim that this kind of sleep is better or more natural, just that it was incredibly common. Is the idea that it was common now thought to be false?

I don't know about commonly thought to be false because I'm not sure it's commonly thought about at all, but it's a theory with considerable weaknesses

Ekirch hypothesis: Early humans had two distinct phases of sleep with an important gap between. Lack of in-depth discussion or even a name for that gap in any language is actually evidence of it being so common it wasn't worth commenting on. It disappeared - again without comment - because of widely available artificial light, although it actually makes less sense to dedicate midnight hours to stuff like household chores and reading in the middle of the night without easy light sources, especially in northern European summer when it's about the only time there isn't daylight.

Null hypothesis: early humans slept much like today's humans, sometimes waking or being woken in the night, occasionally even intentionally but generally not making a big deal of it and trying to sleep through. People sometimes described periods of broken sleep as "first sleep", "second sleep" and even "third sleep" but commentary on the practise of biphasic sleep and importance of midnight waking is harder to find because most people didn't do it that way. A lot of references to "first sleep" can be found if you search digitized records with that string and its foreign language equivalents, but so can references to obviously non-systematic things like "first injury" or "first marriage". You can't generalise human behaviour in the absence of electricity from one tribe that does have a midnight break when numerous others studied don't.

Re: The medieval habit of ‘two sleeps’

#30

I blame it on alcohol. If I drink I’m always up for a few hours in the middle of the night. And I’m quite sure they were doing a lot of that back in that time.

Ah yes. Having an evening drink, falling asleep at like 9PM, and then waking up wide awake at midnight to dick around for a few hours until finally falling back asleep at like 3 AM. It still happens to me from time to time.
Post reply on HN