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Omicron Makes Vaccine Mandates Obsolete

wsj.com

21–30 of 34 posts

Re: Omicron Makes Vaccine Mandates Obsolete

#21
post #6

I can’t read the article, but guessing it puts very little weight on the severity reduction vaccines grant. Or is there new data showing that’s not a thing?

I don't see anything about severity reduction in the article. The argument it has lies in >As the World Health Organization puts it, “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission.” For Omicron, there is as yet no such evidence. And > T…

I know too much about the bad ideas of Nobel Prize winners to trust your presumption (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_disease ), so I went to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luc_Montagnier

] During the COVID-19 pandemic, Montagnier was criticised for using his Nobel prize status to "spread dangerous health messages outside his field of knowledge"[6] for promoting the conspiracy theory that SARS-CoV-2 was deliberately created in a laboratory. Such a claim has been refuted by other virologists.[7][8][9][10]

Of course there's no reason to trust Wikipedia. My point is to challenge the idea that because someone got a Nobel Prize on one topic, that makes them a credible source on even related topics.

RationalWiki has a much lower threshold than Wikipedia and at https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nobel_disease writes of Montagnier support for "[h]omeopathy, water memory, autism quackery, AIDS cured by nutrition and vaccine hysteria", linking to https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/01/14/the-nobel-dise... for support.

It was easy to find L Montagnier et al 2011 J. Phys.: Conf. Ser.306 012007, "DNA waves and water" https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/306/1/0... which, if true, would indeed overthrow science, and deserve another Nobel Prize.

Yet it's almost only cited by homeopaths, and more broadly "alt. medicine" sources. The setup doesn't look complicated, so should be easily reproducible. Almost as if it wasn't correct - just like we would expect.

Re: Omicron Makes Vaccine Mandates Obsolete

#22
post #6

I can’t read the article, but guessing it puts very little weight on the severity reduction vaccines grant. Or is there new data showing that’s not a thing?

I don't see anything about severity reduction in the article. The argument it has lies in >As the World Health Organization puts it, “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission.” For Omicron, there is as yet no such evidence. And > T…

The last two paragraphs of the medrxiv article is the following:

"Our study contributes to emerging evidence that BNT162b2 or mRNA-1273 primary vaccine protection against Omicron decreases quickly over time with booster vaccination offering a significant increase in protection.

In light of the exponential rise in Omicron cases, these findings highlight the need for massive rollout of vaccinations and booster vaccinations."

Compare this to the suggestion of WSJ's word choice of "obsolete"

Re: Omicron Makes Vaccine Mandates Obsolete

#23
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just from reading his wikipedia bio, whatever gravitas he may have once had seems to have been traded for conspiracy theories and pseudoscience. This looks like idea laundering.

> wikipedia bio You should know better than blindly trust wikipedia. It's written by humans, too, who are not devoid of bias.

Nor should one blindly trust a Nobel Prize winner.

cft (who, like us all, is not devoid of bias) linked to Wikipedia as support for the importance of this letter. I think it's only fair to examine that page to check if that support is appropriate.

Re: Omicron Makes Vaccine Mandates Obsolete

#25
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything about severity reduction in the article. The argument it has lies in >As the World Health Organization puts it, “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission.” For Omicron, there is as yet no such evidence. And > T…

I know too much about the bad ideas of Nobel Prize winners to trust your presumption (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_disease ), so I went to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luc_Montagnier ] During the COVID-19 pandemic, Montagnier was criticised for using his Nobel prize status to "spread dangerous health messages outside his field of knowledge"[6] for promoting the conspiracy theory that SARS-CoV-2 was delibe…

Thanks for digging deeper. I went in too hard in the "give argument I disagree with a fair perspective", and didn't do the further research I should've.

Re: Omicron Makes Vaccine Mandates Obsolete

#26
post #16

In Denmark, 94% of infections are Omicron. Double vaccinated get infected at a higher rate than unvaccinated.(Source: ssi.dk) A booster reduces infection rates to a little less than the unvaccinated. Those are what the data show in Denmark.

Interesting. Maybe the effective lockdown of the unvaccinated is a factor in this? ref: https://dk.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/security-and-t...

There's no lockdown for unvaccinated in Denmark. If you want access to services you need a valid "coronapas" (health passport) which requires either full vaccination, a negative test or recovery from covid.

Re: Omicron Makes Vaccine Mandates Obsolete

#29
post #16

In Denmark, 94% of infections are Omicron. Double vaccinated get infected at a higher rate than unvaccinated.(Source: ssi.dk) A booster reduces infection rates to a little less than the unvaccinated. Those are what the data show in Denmark.

I agree that mandates cannot be justified and we were never at a point that they could be justified. Pfizer will sell us their Omicron vaccination next...

Re: Omicron Makes Vaccine Mandates Obsolete

#30
post #3
post #2

By no less than Luc Montagnier himself. This looks like the nuclear letter by Einstein to Roosevelt. WSJ is one of the very few remaining solid objective outlets in the US. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luc_Montagnier

During the COVID-19 pandemic, Montagnier was a promoter of the conspiracy theory that SARS-CoV-2, the causative virus, was deliberately created in, and thereafter escaped from a laboratory. Such a claim has been refuted by other virologists.

>Such a claim has been refuted by other virologists.

like Peter Daszak, Shi Zhengli, and Fauci

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/10/nih-admits-funding-r...

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