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Swedes were fooled by one of the biggest scientific bluffs of our time (2020)

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Re: Swedes were fooled by one of the biggest scientific bluffs of our time (2020)

#21

Post by nemetroid »

ShockedUnicorn wrote: post #11

As a swede. This is the first time I've seen this 4 colour system. I'm 30, so maybe it's more popular around younger people? I have seen things like "INTP-J" on friends profile. I think it's called 16 personalities. Me and my colleagues did that test, and the suggested one for me did not fit in with me at all, and most of us thought the results were bullshit. Why anyone would follow this to make work groups, or to ex…

It was the best selling pocket book in Sweden in 2017 and 2018. 800 000 copies have been sold in Swedish. It was pretty difficult to miss.

Re: Swedes were fooled by one of the biggest scientific bluffs of our time (2020)

#22

Post by andi999 »

maratc wrote: post #17

I've lost the thought around this part: > For example, consider a person who says, “now I understand why I have such negative thoughts, can’t get to sleep, and have difficulty getting going…I’ve got depression.” This person might believe that the explanation of her symptoms is depression, but in fact, the diagnosis of depression is just a categorisation of exactly these symptoms. The diagnosis of depression usually r…

Totally weird, also if the article were true, it would suggest going out, trying to think positively were effective treatments of depression (which they are at most for light cases)

Re: Swedes were fooled by one of the biggest scientific bluffs of our time (2020)

#24

Post by Sharlin »

maratc wrote: post #17

I've lost the thought around this part: > For example, consider a person who says, “now I understand why I have such negative thoughts, can’t get to sleep, and have difficulty getting going…I’ve got depression.” This person might believe that the explanation of her symptoms is depression, but in fact, the diagnosis of depression is just a categorisation of exactly these symptoms. The diagnosis of depression usually r…

No no no no. The diagnosis of depression absolutely does not revolve around "changes in body chemistry and the functioning of the brain", except insofar as "functioning of the brain" equals the symptoms reported by the patient! There are no known physical or chemical tests for depression. Even if we have some vague theories about "chemical imbalance in the brain", for the most part the neurological or biochemical mechanisms of depression are a mystery.

Re: Swedes were fooled by one of the biggest scientific bluffs of our time (2020)

#25

Post by kingkawn »

maratc wrote: post #17

I've lost the thought around this part: > For example, consider a person who says, “now I understand why I have such negative thoughts, can’t get to sleep, and have difficulty getting going…I’ve got depression.” This person might believe that the explanation of her symptoms is depression, but in fact, the diagnosis of depression is just a categorisation of exactly these symptoms. The diagnosis of depression usually r…

It’s a long way of saying that naming the symptoms does nothing to reveal the cause or even necessarily the treatment.

Re: Swedes were fooled by one of the biggest scientific bluffs of our time (2020)

#26

Post by jdmichal »

mongol wrote: post #13
ShockedUnicorn wrote: post #11

As a swede. This is the first time I've seen this 4 colour system. I'm 30, so maybe it's more popular around younger people? I have seen things like "INTP-J" on friends profile. I think it's called 16 personalities. Me and my colleagues did that test, and the suggested one for me did not fit in with me at all, and most of us thought the results were bullshit. Why anyone would follow this to make work groups, or to ex…

Is not that INTP thing Myers-Briggs that is mentioned in the article?

It is. Myers-Briggs has four axes: I/E, N/S, T/F, P/J.

There's also a whole sub-layer of dominant and auxiliary functions.

Re: Swedes were fooled by one of the biggest scientific bluffs of our time (2020)

#27

Post by sampo »

kriro wrote: post #12

I'm not a psychologist but this sentence: """Modern evidence-based methods in behavioural science adopt the ground principle that people’s behavior mainly depend on context.""" doesn't have any source to back it up and is opposed to what I have read about the introvert/extrovert divide which seems to be more genetic than context dependent for example. And those are character traits that directly shape behavior (I'd r…

> """Modern evidence-based methods in behavioural science adopt the ground principle that people’s behavior mainly depend on context."""

Adopting ground principles doesn't sound very evidence-based to begin with.

Re: Swedes were fooled by one of the biggest scientific bluffs of our time (2020)

#28

Post by ubercore »

maratc wrote: post #17

I've lost the thought around this part: > For example, consider a person who says, “now I understand why I have such negative thoughts, can’t get to sleep, and have difficulty getting going…I’ve got depression.” This person might believe that the explanation of her symptoms is depression, but in fact, the diagnosis of depression is just a categorisation of exactly these symptoms. The diagnosis of depression usually r…

I think you're misreading what the article is saying. It's not saying depression isn't real, it's saying that depression as a label exist outside the diagnostic criteria for it. We can't actually test neurotransmitter levels, we don't have a blood test for depression.

Re: Swedes were fooled by one of the biggest scientific bluffs of our time (2020)

#29

Post by hermannj314 »

I struggle often with this somewhat arbitrary desire for everything to be data-driven and backed by science.

People hope, pray, follow best practices, listen to advice on the internet and yet, every now and then we are reminded that only fools do these things. Really intelligent people only listen to science and do things backed by science and lots of data.

How does anyone accomplish anything if every step they take has to be double blind studied before it even crosses their mind?

Maybe for my own sanity, while humanity marches towards becoming Vulcan, I'll continuing accepting a few heuristics, fables, and Grandma's chicken noodle soup.

Re: Swedes were fooled by one of the biggest scientific bluffs of our time (2020)

#30

Post by n8cpdx »

maratc wrote: post #17

I've lost the thought around this part: > For example, consider a person who says, “now I understand why I have such negative thoughts, can’t get to sleep, and have difficulty getting going…I’ve got depression.” This person might believe that the explanation of her symptoms is depression, but in fact, the diagnosis of depression is just a categorisation of exactly these symptoms. The diagnosis of depression usually r…

Diabetes is measurable through blood sugar, insulin, a1c, and other direct chemical tests. It is easily treated (to maintain blood sugar, not cure, unfortunately) through direct chemical application (insulin).

Depression can’t easily be measured by any chemical test, existing chemical treatments aren’t effective, and CBT (talking to someone) is similarly effective to chemicals. The chemicals we do have don’t just treat depression, they treat a whole bunch of things (anxiety, OCD, etc) and come with a whole bunch of whacky side effects, which suggests they aren’t particularly well-targeted. They also sometimes make young people want to kill themselves, which is maybe not the best side effect for a depressed person to experience.

Tldr: “depression is just a chemical imbalance” is basically a meme, and I haven’t seen any evidence that it is anything more than pseudoscience. Just looking at the condition and it’s place in society is almost enough to disprove the “just a chemical imbalance” thought. Even the DSM V has no chemical criteria for diagnosing depression: https://floridabhcenter.cbcs.usf.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021...

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