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AWS Ground Station

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Re: AWS Ground Station

#21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience the communications related paperwork is a prerequisite for the paperwork to actually launch your satellite. Every single satellite (or constellation of identical satellites) has to have its own “internationally coordinated” set of paperwork, some of which may block you getting the information Amazon needs (depending on the regulatory environment of your country). The radio regulations are a real head…

> from my own experience laser based communications can’t get here soon enough Thanks for details. What do you mean, would you elaborate please?

For instance in Australia, I’ll have to register with the ACMA (our FCC) and they require information about what kind of radio your using, where your ground stations are, and it actually creates a bit of a catch 22 here in Australia for non-experts. You need the ACMA documents to get the launch permits to get orbit information to get coordinated with Amazon Ground Station to get documents about your ground stations for the ACMA.

It’s definitely resolvable but it’s non-trivial and requires dealing with people who are familiar with the intricacies of a specific government bureaucracy. There’s no equivalent of “a Wi-Fi module” for space and despite the massive improvement in electronic systems that can survive in space for a while, you’re going to run into a brick wall of red tape the moment you want to communicate with your space craft due to how complicated the regulatory environment is in space for small operators. A great example is the fees involved, for a first time applicant it’s AU$135,000 to file the paperwork (plus extra if it’s not perfect and they have to work with you to actually get it accepted) to use a radio in space, that’s $135000 to say “I’m going to use standard s band communications at x number of watts power using a global commercial provider like Amazon and have nothing custom at all” and it’s sufficiently uncommon that there’s not even a form to fill in so you end up having to talk to people they recommend as consultants just to find out how to format the documents you’re sending them.

All of this is complicated gone for laser communication systems. If you have a ground station with appropriate airspace clearance (cause firing lasers into airplane cockpits is bad) which is actually pretty easy to coordinate as the air traffic regulations are used to putting in place all sort of “don’t go here during x/y hours” type notices and it’s not a big deal to them why… all the paperwork is done at that point other than your launch permits. No radio regulation, no ACMA rip off fees, no hassle at all. It’s just very difficult to get laser communication equipment at the moment as it’s still the bleeding edge. It’s rapidly growing as commercial providers bring things to market but it’s still getting through the chicken-or-egg phase of you don’t have demand for ground stations without satellites and satellites can’t use them without ground stations. But it’s slowly improving.

However for a long time cost will be prohibitive for laser comma. Despite the elimination of all the fees and bureaucracy it’s still much cheaper to develop your small satellite with off the shelf Software defined radio hardware which can cost significantly less money during development and prototyping phases because the cost of commercial “off the shelf” parts for space hardware is insane.

I’m looking forward to SpaceX getting starship flying because it’s going to utterly destroy this state of affairs by sheer market forces. The first year of starship flying commercial payloads once a week, will be able to put more hardware into orbit than we have in the entire history up to this point, including falcon 9 and the copious launches of Starlink satellites. When it costs more to file the paperwork than it does to build and launch your entire cubesat, ($100000 is very generous budget for a 3-6 month cubesat if SpaceX live up to their projected costs per kilogram to orbit… minus regulation costs) your going to see people push for the necessary regulatory changes to get us an equivalent to “Wi-Fi” but in space, an anyone can use this under x watts frequency allocation that will just open the floodgates to innovative small satellite designs and projects.

Re: AWS Ground Station

#22
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience the communications related paperwork is a prerequisite for the paperwork to actually launch your satellite. Every single satellite (or constellation of identical satellites) has to have its own “internationally coordinated” set of paperwork, some of which may block you getting the information Amazon needs (depending on the regulatory environment of your country). The radio regulations are a real head…

> from my own experience laser based communications can’t get here soon enough Thanks for details. What do you mean, would you elaborate please?

Communicating with satellites using lasers, rather than electromagnetic rays. It'd bypass having to license radio spectrum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_communication_in_space

Re: AWS Ground Station

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah unfortunately this site has a lot of AWS fans and relatively few Azure fans. it is fashionable to dislike Microsoft and has been for most of Microsoft's life.

Bit unprovoked wouldn't you say? I don't see a lot of "fans" of specific cloud services. They are each flawed in different ways. Microsoft gets bashed in the context of open source. In the context of running a cloud, I've only ever seen them praised for actually hiring customer support staff.

> Bit unprovoked wouldn't you say?

did I say something inflammatory? AWS gets a lot of attention on this site, and Azure doesn't.

I mean I haven't measured it, but it isn't a leap at all to have this position.

Re: AWS Ground Station

#24

There are quite a few unique applications for geospatial data (imagery especially) that can return quite a high ROI to the right parties.

care to name a few examples? The upfront costs associated seems non-trivial

I’m sure OP has better examples, but ‘alternative data’ products offered to hedge funds estimating retail/industrial vehicle traffic come to mind

Re: AWS Ground Station

#25

As an individual who certainly doesn't have any satellites in orbit and really doesn't have any space-specific skills beyond KSP, but who has enough money to blow on $10/minute fees, is there anything I could do with this? Not illegal or nefarious things either, but could I do something like listen in on data being transmitted down by an existing satellite (say something like Hubble or Landsat that will eventually re…

This AWS blog post does something like that: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/publicsector/earth-observation-...

Re: AWS Ground Station

#26

As an individual who certainly doesn't have any satellites in orbit and really doesn't have any space-specific skills beyond KSP, but who has enough money to blow on $10/minute fees, is there anything I could do with this? Not illegal or nefarious things either, but could I do something like listen in on data being transmitted down by an existing satellite (say something like Hubble or Landsat that will eventually re…

Absolutely, so it’s possible to connect to weather satellites like NOAA-20 and Aqua and pull down the data from them as they pass. Check out the CloudFormation templates to get started. 1. https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ground-station/latest/ug/custome... 2. https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ground-station/latest/ug/choose-...

Re: AWS Ground Station

#27
post #26

As an individual who certainly doesn't have any satellites in orbit and really doesn't have any space-specific skills beyond KSP, but who has enough money to blow on $10/minute fees, is there anything I could do with this? Not illegal or nefarious things either, but could I do something like listen in on data being transmitted down by an existing satellite (say something like Hubble or Landsat that will eventually re…

Absolutely, so it’s possible to connect to weather satellites like NOAA-20 and Aqua and pull down the data from them as they pass. Check out the CloudFormation templates to get started. 1. https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ground-station/latest/ug/custome ... 2. https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ground-station/latest/ug/choose- ...

A limited version is actually possible with relatively cheap components: https://youtu.be/cjClTnZ4Xh4

Re: AWS Ground Station

#28
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> from my own experience laser based communications can’t get here soon enough Thanks for details. What do you mean, would you elaborate please?

For instance in Australia, I’ll have to register with the ACMA (our FCC) and they require information about what kind of radio your using, where your ground stations are, and it actually creates a bit of a catch 22 here in Australia for non-experts. You need the ACMA documents to get the launch permits to get orbit information to get coordinated with Amazon Ground Station to get documents about your ground stations f…

Could SpaceX say, “if you put your satellite up with us, you can use this nifty, cheap module to link up with Starlink satellites in orbit, then we’ll forward your data directly to your terminal; no need for any radio permitting.”

?

Re: AWS Ground Station

#29
post #2

I have been curious about this service for a while but the landing page is very scant on technical details about how it actually works. - Is it an EC2 instance with an SDR attached? What’s the software setup? Is it compatible with GNUradio? - What are the the antenna RX gain(s)? - What TX power can be used? Edit: I found this presentation [1] which has some additional details. It does seem to be SDR based but I can’t…

Huh. VITA-49 kainda makes sense. It's the industrial/defence sides standardized format for transferring RF stuff as data. All other solutions for streaming the data seem vendor specific to their hardware and software. When AWS Ground Station launched I looked into their terms of service, hoping to be able to rent some time on their big dish to receive images from weather satellites. But no, you needed to own the sate…

Wonder how they go about verifying you own the satellite in question...

Re: AWS Ground Station

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit unprovoked wouldn't you say? I don't see a lot of "fans" of specific cloud services. They are each flawed in different ways. Microsoft gets bashed in the context of open source. In the context of running a cloud, I've only ever seen them praised for actually hiring customer support staff.

> Bit unprovoked wouldn't you say? did I say something inflammatory? AWS gets a lot of attention on this site, and Azure doesn't. I mean I haven't measured it, but it isn't a leap at all to have this position.

I think that's primarily because the HN commentariat tends to be working on projects that are cloud-native which tends to skew heavily towards AWS and GCP, whereas Azure's primary customer base is enterprises doing cloudification work.

I mean, sure, there's a bunch of inveterate microsoft haters on here (with varying levels of quality of reasoning for their hate), but I don't think their existence is the main driver of the lack of commenters using Azure.

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