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Maybe we could tone down the JavaScript (2016)

eev.ee

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Re: Maybe we could tone down the JavaScript (2016)

#21
post #17

I know this is likely to be controversial, but JS improves the user experience a lot, both in terms of interaction and speed, as well as making development more manageable (if used correctly), alas at the expense of annoying purists who would prefer to enagage in all sorts of CSS/HTML gymnastics just to avoid using JS (and other kinds that would prefer vanilla JS to frameworks). Do that in a large project and you'll…

> but JS improves the user experience a lot, both in terms of interaction and speed,

Except for autocomplete, do you have any examples where user experience is increased a lot?

Re: Maybe we could tone down the JavaScript (2016)

#22

Quoted post unavailable.

Plenty of people still write JavaScript. TypeScript is rapidly gaining popularity, but I'd be surprised if it's reached even parity with plain JS usage yet. People using Angular are probably mostly using TypeScript, but there are still huge communities (React, Vue, Node.js) where TS is optional.

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Re: Maybe we could tone down the JavaScript (2016)

#23

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm sure you already know this (although I've had conversations with people that hate on TS in the past, that didn't, hence my post), but Typescript is JavaScript at runtime, there are no performance hits by using it in production (and negligible build times on save during development).

Re: Maybe we could tone down the JavaScript (2016)

#24

Quoted post unavailable.

Vanilla JS is more rare these days. I interview 2-3 devs per week and always ask basic vanilla JS questions since it’s vital for our workflow that you don’t rely on frameworks we may or may not be using. Knowing react/vue is a bonus, but knowing how to do basic tasks like adding event listeners and manipulating the DOM in vanilla JS is required.

It’s anecdotal but I just wanted to say there are a few places that still haven’t fully committed to a framework.

I’d say at least 1 dev per week can’t add an event listener or manipulate styles in plain JavaScript. It’s getting to the point where I’m going to need to stop asking and just test in whatever framework they know. Then retrain when they come on board.

Re: Maybe we could tone down the JavaScript (2016)

#25
post #4

I honestly thought this attitude had died out with everything being Vue and React and all that I used Huel's site earlier and it even had a splash overlay saying what it was loading, it was one reticulating splines away from being The Sims Edit: ah it was posted in 2016, I don't think anyone (but do wish) cares about limiting their JS usage anymore

A very good and recent website for learning about Swift do not have a single line of JS :) https://www.swiftbysundell.com Some people still do care! Admittedly not a lot though.

Re: Maybe we could tone down the JavaScript (2016)

#26
post #17

I know this is likely to be controversial, but JS improves the user experience a lot, both in terms of interaction and speed, as well as making development more manageable (if used correctly), alas at the expense of annoying purists who would prefer to enagage in all sorts of CSS/HTML gymnastics just to avoid using JS (and other kinds that would prefer vanilla JS to frameworks). Do that in a large project and you'll…

Sure it can, but is that the way these companies are using it? Are they using Javascript to improve experience and development speed? If a Twitter textbox is lagging while someone types, then that's a degradation in user experience, and a pretty fundamental one. I like autocomplete too, but I also like my text box not to lag, and maybe there's a middle ground?

I wouldn't say I'm a "purist" about this stuff, but I do feel like at least scripting should make the site feel better, not worse. A lot of these sites are really unpleasant to use, Youtube swapped over to this single-page model that I'm sure was very difficult to build, but sometimes it just breaks navigation for me. What fixes it is I reload the page. So it feels like, to me, even as someone who has Javascript enabled on Youtube, we have gone from an experience where navigation never broke for me on Youtube, to a situation where sometimes Youtube loses track of the fact I'm online and I need to refresh the page, or I hit the back button and it reloads the same video. That's a lot of extra Javascript for an experience that feels like a step backwards. The old Youtube designs all used Javascript, but they also had working back buttons and felt just generally snappier.

I went on Google maps recently and tried to quickly copy a number of website links for businesses into a text file: right-click copy link doesn't work. I can't copy a link for an external website, Google Maps is no longer using hrefs for literally the primary thing they were designed for.

And for what? It's not faster for me to open the external websites, they don't load quicker. I don't get URL previews or some crud. It's a link that doesn't work as well, all that's happened is there's a click handler that has fewer features than the link used to have, and maybe it's easier for Google to get a pingback? This isn't an improvement.

Re: Maybe we could tone down the JavaScript (2016)

#27
post #14
post #7

It's been thus, nigh on two decades now. Product Designer: "No system controls; we want our users to have the Full Brand Experience, therefore, custom controls." Also Product Designer: "Why don't our custom controls work as well as system controls?"

I mean the product manager isn’t wrong, there is no good reason we shouldn’t be able to make custom components with the behavior of “native” widgets. The fact that the dev story is “build a widget from scratch out of divs” and not “extend the fully functional component with new styling and hooks and slight behavior modifications.” We created this problem ourselves by not having the tools to meet designer needs while…

well it's historically been because 'extend the native widget' isn't possible with css. WebComponents change that a little bit with well-scoped css, but that's still a very javascripty solution.

Re: Maybe we could tone down the JavaScript (2016)

#28
post #21
post #17

I know this is likely to be controversial, but JS improves the user experience a lot, both in terms of interaction and speed, as well as making development more manageable (if used correctly), alas at the expense of annoying purists who would prefer to enagage in all sorts of CSS/HTML gymnastics just to avoid using JS (and other kinds that would prefer vanilla JS to frameworks). Do that in a large project and you'll…

> but JS improves the user experience a lot, both in terms of interaction and speed, Except for autocomplete, do you have any examples where user experience is increased a lot?

ajax/async requests.

On this site, for example, if up vote your comment.. the status will just be updated. Without JS, it causes the page to reload, and I will briefly lose my place.

Re: Maybe we could tone down the JavaScript (2016)

#29
post #21
post #17

I know this is likely to be controversial, but JS improves the user experience a lot, both in terms of interaction and speed, as well as making development more manageable (if used correctly), alas at the expense of annoying purists who would prefer to enagage in all sorts of CSS/HTML gymnastics just to avoid using JS (and other kinds that would prefer vanilla JS to frameworks). Do that in a large project and you'll…

> but JS improves the user experience a lot, both in terms of interaction and speed, Except for autocomplete, do you have any examples where user experience is increased a lot?

The big one is seeing the results of data modifications instantly without a full page refresh.
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