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“Catholic-baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.” – Peter Viereck, Shame and Glory of the Intellectuals, 1953
How the Jesuits Charted the World
21–30 of 51 posts
Re: How the Jesuits Charted the World
#22Quoted post unavailable.
I dislike religious people, generally speaking, but Catholics in the PNW are the source of a lot of reliable historical accounts of tribal groups. I’m somewhat resentful, but they did good work recording linguistic data. Better than the miners would have done. Just saying.
If we're talking about abusing and killing people, how do we weigh the factors of "reliable historical accounts" and "good work recording linguistic data"?
Re: How the Jesuits Charted the World
#23Quoted post unavailable.
> In America their mission is correcting Native Americans with "Indian schools". It may be possible, but is certainly difficult, to imagine a more flagrant abuse of the word “is”.
Catholic Indian schools still exist, now usually with something like a token hour class after Mass dedicated to their ancestors culture. Still called Indian schools, still disgusting.
Re: How the Jesuits Charted the World
#24Quoted post unavailable.
In my part of the world the jesuits had done a lot of good by starting schools.
I have heard this very often.
The queen of England did not send ship loads of gold to do charity work in the colonies.
The native tax payers to this day pay the salaries including the priests who work as principals or head masters.
The land is almost always ill gotten, by force or on 99 year lease for $1.
And in many parts of the world these schools were started explicitly to breed subjects loyal to the colonizers, Macauly's children.
Re: How the Jesuits Charted the World
#25My Spanish surname is a lasting legacy of the Jesuits deciding to rename (by sword or by reward) entire villages during the 16th century. https://mb.com.ph/2020/07/05/the-jesuits-in-the-philippines/
Re: How the Jesuits Charted the World
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
I dislike religious people, generally speaking, but Catholics in the PNW are the source of a lot of reliable historical accounts of tribal groups. I’m somewhat resentful, but they did good work recording linguistic data. Better than the miners would have done. Just saying.
If we're talking about abusing and killing people, how do we weigh the factors of "reliable historical accounts" and "good work recording linguistic data"?
It’s not about weighing anything, they simply left something useful for posterity. Their observations and record keeping has helped preserve some scraps of indigenous culture that would have otherwise been lost, even to surviving members of tribes today. That’s a good thing, even if missionaries did more bad than good overall.
Re: How the Jesuits Charted the World
#27It’s important not to lump Jesuits in with other groups, or discount all Jesuits in history because of the actions of some. Things I heard growing up in Protestant circles may have biased me towards writing off the Jesuits, but a few years ago I read the 21st century book Heroic Leadership which was written by a Jesuit seminarian who took a surprising turn into investment banking and worked his way up to managing dir…
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Re: How the Jesuits Charted the World
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my part of the world the jesuits had done a lot of good by starting schools.
I have heard this very often. The queen of England did not send ship loads of gold to do charity work in the colonies. The native tax payers to this day pay the salaries including the priests who work as principals or head masters. The land is almost always ill gotten, by force or on 99 year lease for $1. And in many parts of the world these schools were started explicitly to breed subjects loyal to the colonizers, M…
I have heard your argument too often from outsiders but never from anyone who actually studied in these schools. Luckily, I don't know any queen sympathizer among my friends who passed out from Jesuit institutions neither do I know anyone who converted.
One thing I do know is that their schooling helped them to get jobs and get out of poverty when the software revolution happened.
I am not well versed in European history but common sense tells me a conversion collusion between the protestant British Queen and Catholic Jesuits has more probability to be a fiction.
Re: How the Jesuits Charted the World
#29It’s important not to lump Jesuits in with other groups, or discount all Jesuits in history because of the actions of some. Things I heard growing up in Protestant circles may have biased me towards writing off the Jesuits, but a few years ago I read the 21st century book Heroic Leadership which was written by a Jesuit seminarian who took a surprising turn into investment banking and worked his way up to managing dir…
I went to Jesuit high school and we had to watch "The Mission" (the Jeremy Irons movie) almost as often as Dead Poet's Society. That and "Romero". The good thing about it, though, is that the Jesuits at that school were performatively endorsing liberation theology, which is not something you can say for Catholicism writ large.
Not Braveheart and Forrest Gump?
Re: How the Jesuits Charted the World
#30It’s important not to lump Jesuits in with other groups, or discount all Jesuits in history because of the actions of some. Things I heard growing up in Protestant circles may have biased me towards writing off the Jesuits, but a few years ago I read the 21st century book Heroic Leadership which was written by a Jesuit seminarian who took a surprising turn into investment banking and worked his way up to managing dir…
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I must stand up for Jesus. As I see it, he was simply genious. And his teachings, while unattainable, work as a solid moral compass.
Try to see the legend inside the myth and the genious inside the legend. I found it useful in life.